3 Reasons Why Theism is Wrong.

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
261

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

No, the mind is a product/function of the brain. Without it [the brain] there’s no existence.
[/quote]

How can we say that? If science tests the physical, how can it show that the non-physical no longer existence because the brain is damaged?[/quote]

We know this because changes to the brain affect changes to the mind. Sometimes changes to the brain changes the mind so much that, to those around the person, it’s as if the person completely changed.

This leads me to conclude that, if the brain is damaged beyond functioning [death] the mind stops to exist alltogether.

262

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:<<< what you are saying is that here are three things for which we do not have an explanation, therefore, there must be a God. >>>[/quote]For the record I’m saying that by starting with the incomprehensible triune God first it simply follows that there be a multitude of things for which I myself do not have an explanation. I don’t blindly discover mind bending mystery in the reality I live in. I fully expect it and utilize it as an opportunity to marvel at the limitless infinite intellect that IS almighty God for whom no mystery is possible.
[/quote]

And this is why I have a problem with religions. You start with the belief/assumption that there exists a God. This, at least for me, raised way more questions than answers. The most important question was the problem of evil: if there is a God who actually loves us and watches over us, then why does he let bad things happen to what seem to be otherwise good people?

[/quote]

Because this isn’t all there is. Because we cannot nor do we NEED to understand every atomic detail of every atomic what and why of existence. Because without any shitty stuff, no one, anywhere, in any way, could or would appreciate good, or sacrifice, or fellowship, or real love, or anything other than a short, cold, robotic existence characterized by chemical reactions and response to stimuli.

263

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:<<< what you are saying is that here are three things for which we do not have an explanation, therefore, there must be a God. >>>[/quote]For the record I’m saying that by starting with the incomprehensible triune God first it simply follows that there be a multitude of things for which I myself do not have an explanation. I don’t blindly discover mind bending mystery in the reality I live in. I fully expect it and utilize it as an opportunity to marvel at the limitless infinite intellect that IS almighty God for whom no mystery is possible.
[/quote]

And this is why I have a problem with religions. You start with the belief/assumption that there exists a God. This, at least for me, raised way more questions than answers. The most important question was the problem of evil: if there is a God who actually loves us and watches over us, then why does he let bad things happen to what seem to be otherwise good people?

[/quote]

Because this isn’t all there is. Because we cannot nor do we NEED to understand every atomic detail of every atomic what and why of existence. Because without any shitty stuff, no one, anywhere, in any way, could or would appreciate good, or sacrifice, or fellowship, or real love, or anything other than a short, cold, robotic existence characterized by chemical reactions and response to stimuli. [/quote]

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?

264

[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism >>>[/quote]I can, but I’ll let him go first since you’re bored of me an all.

265

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:<<< what you are saying is that here are three things for which we do not have an explanation, therefore, there must be a God. >>>[/quote]For the record I’m saying that by starting with the incomprehensible triune God first it simply follows that there be a multitude of things for which I myself do not have an explanation. I don’t blindly discover mind bending mystery in the reality I live in. I fully expect it and utilize it as an opportunity to marvel at the limitless infinite intellect that IS almighty God for whom no mystery is possible.
[/quote]

And this is why I have a problem with religions. You start with the belief/assumption that there exists a God. This, at least for me, raised way more questions than answers. The most important question was the problem of evil: if there is a God who actually loves us and watches over us, then why does he let bad things happen to what seem to be otherwise good people?

[/quote]

Because this isn’t all there is. Because we cannot nor do we NEED to understand every atomic detail of every atomic what and why of existence. Because without any shitty stuff, no one, anywhere, in any way, could or would appreciate good, or sacrifice, or fellowship, or real love, or anything other than a short, cold, robotic existence characterized by chemical reactions and response to stimuli. [/quote]

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul.

266

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:<<< Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism >>>[/quote]I can, but I’ll let him go first since you’re bored of me an all.
[/quote]

Since when has that stopped you?

267

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul. [/quote]

Eventhough i believe in neither concept, you believe they are real and that is why i’m graced with these positive emotions because they affect me inspite of my [lack of] beliefs?

268

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul. [/quote]

Eventhough i believe in neither concept, you believe they are real and that is why i’m graced with these positive emotions because they affect me inspite of my [lack of] beliefs?[/quote]

Belief in truth or not doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy that truth. Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity and the relativity, not many if all believed in it or knew it.

269

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul. [/quote]

Eventhough i believe in neither concept, you believe they are real and that is why i’m graced with these positive emotions because they affect me inspite of my [lack of] beliefs?[/quote]

Belief in truth or not doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy that truth. Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity and the relativity, not many if all believed in it or knew it.[/quote]

Positive [and negative] emotional experiences are due to a cocktail of chemicals in my brain. How does that relate to free will and souls and gravity Chris?

270

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity[/quote]

Oh Jesus.

271

[quote]Makavali wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity[/quote]

Oh Jesus.[/quote]

Sorry, Newton. The ‘inventor’ of gravity.

272

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul. [/quote]

Eventhough i believe in neither concept, you believe they are real and that is why i’m graced with these positive emotions because they affect me inspite of my [lack of] beliefs?[/quote]

Belief in truth or not doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy that truth. Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity and the relativity, not many if all believed in it or knew it.[/quote]

Positive [and negative] emotional experiences are due to a cocktail of chemicals in my brain. How does that relate to free will and souls and gravity Chris?
[/quote]

So love is just a chemical reaction, you have no control over your emotions?

273

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul. [/quote]

Eventhough i believe in neither concept, you believe they are real and that is why i’m graced with these positive emotions because they affect me inspite of my [lack of] beliefs?[/quote]

Belief in truth or not doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy that truth. Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity and the relativity, not many if all believed in it or knew it.[/quote]

Positive [and negative] emotional experiences are due to a cocktail of chemicals in my brain. How does that relate to free will and souls and gravity Chris?
[/quote]

So love is just a chemical reaction, you have no control over your emotions?[/quote]

What do you mean by control? Can i will myself to fall in love? No, i can’t.

When i get irritated, the fact that i get irritated is not something i can control, but i can control my behaviour while being irritated.

I’m not sure what you mean.

274

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul. [/quote]

Eventhough i believe in neither concept, you believe they are real and that is why i’m graced with these positive emotions because they affect me inspite of my [lack of] beliefs?[/quote]

Belief in truth or not doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy that truth. Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity and the relativity, not many if all believed in it or knew it.[/quote]

Positive [and negative] emotional experiences are due to a cocktail of chemicals in my brain. How does that relate to free will and souls and gravity Chris?
[/quote]

So love is just a chemical reaction, you have no control over your emotions?[/quote]

What do you mean by control? Can i will myself to fall in love? No, i can’t.

When i get irritated, the fact that i get irritated is not something i can control, but i can control my behaviour while being irritated.

I’m not sure what you mean.
[/quote]

Didn’t say fall in love, we were talking about love. You serious, you can’t control if you get irritated?

275

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul. [/quote]

Eventhough i believe in neither concept, you believe they are real and that is why i’m graced with these positive emotions because they affect me inspite of my [lack of] beliefs?[/quote]

Belief in truth or not doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy that truth. Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity and the relativity, not many if all believed in it or knew it.[/quote]

Positive [and negative] emotional experiences are due to a cocktail of chemicals in my brain. How does that relate to free will and souls and gravity Chris?
[/quote]

So love is just a chemical reaction, you have no control over your emotions?[/quote]

At a basic form, love is indeed just a chemical reaction. And this is not necessarily a bad thing, at least not for me. It means that I won’t wake up one day and say, “I’m tired of being a husband and father. I’m leaving my family.” This is because I, quite literally, have a chemical dependence that requires I remain with my wife and child. This is why I don’t need a religion to tell me that it is morally wrong to divorce and abandon my family. My family makes me feel good. You’ll probably say that plenty of men, and women, abandon their families every year. This is true. Like any human system, brain chemicals don’t work perfectly and are sometimes subject to competing inputs. If someone’s spouse cheats on them, the resultant spill of “anger” chemicals can overwhelm and negate the “happy” chemicals, causing a divorce.

Can we control our emotions? To a point, and some people can do this better than others. I have learned to do so to a point. Thinking is powerful and can cause the release of not only brain chemicals but other chemicals. For example, thinking about the opposite sex naked can cause sexual arousal. But you’re a good Catholic boy so you don’t do that. I’m just teasing you. But at the end of the day, it’s not the thought per se that produce the reaction, in this case, arousal, but the thought that leads to the release of the right chemicals that produces the reaction.

276

So what’s to brag about if you can’t help but do it? If religious people are lesser for doing the good under the authority of a “sky wizard,” well, then that’s what we’re drawn to do. If someone else doesn’t have a ‘sky wizard’ chemical addiction, but behaves in the same manner, he only does because he’s built that way? Well, ok, but then why the bragging? He has to do it that way. So, neither basis (to the organic robot crowd) can be better or worse.

And if we reduce it chemical reactions, there is no moral right or wrong (even the less controversial stuff). People are, what they’re supposed to be, after all. Even if rape is morally wrong according to my chemicals, and it repulses me, I can’t project that onto a rapist and be intellectually honest.

277

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:<<< what you are saying is that here are three things for which we do not have an explanation, therefore, there must be a God. >>>[/quote]For the record I’m saying that by starting with the incomprehensible triune God first it simply follows that there be a multitude of things for which I myself do not have an explanation. I don’t blindly discover mind bending mystery in the reality I live in. I fully expect it and utilize it as an opportunity to marvel at the limitless infinite intellect that IS almighty God for whom no mystery is possible.
[/quote]

And this is why I have a problem with religions. You start with the belief/assumption that there exists a God. This, at least for me, raised way more questions than answers. The most important question was the problem of evil: if there is a God who actually loves us and watches over us, then why does he let bad things happen to what seem to be otherwise good people?

[/quote]

Because this isn’t all there is. Because we cannot nor do we NEED to understand every atomic detail of every atomic what and why of existence. Because without any shitty stuff, no one, anywhere, in any way, could or would appreciate good, or sacrifice, or fellowship, or real love, or anything other than a short, cold, robotic existence characterized by chemical reactions and response to stimuli. [/quote]

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Boy are my statements ever getting twisted into pretzels by the atheists today.

You are certainly not experiencing life in this manner. You can thank God for that :slight_smile:

278

[quote]MikeTheBear wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]ephrem wrote:

Can you explain why i’m far from experiencing this life as robotic and cold? Can you explain why i experience love, friendship and beauty regardless of my atheism?
[/quote]

Because you have free will and a soul. [/quote]

Eventhough i believe in neither concept, you believe they are real and that is why i’m graced with these positive emotions because they affect me inspite of my [lack of] beliefs?[/quote]

Belief in truth or not doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy that truth. Everyone up to Einstein enjoyed gravity and the relativity, not many if all believed in it or knew it.[/quote]

Positive [and negative] emotional experiences are due to a cocktail of chemicals in my brain. How does that relate to free will and souls and gravity Chris?
[/quote]

So love is just a chemical reaction, you have no control over your emotions?[/quote]

At a basic form, love is indeed just a chemical reaction. And this is not necessarily a bad thing, at least not for me. It means that I won’t wake up one day and say, “I’m tired of being a husband and father. I’m leaving my family.” This is because I, quite literally, have a chemical dependence that requires I remain with my wife and child. This is why I don’t need a religion to tell me that it is morally wrong to divorce and abandon my family. My family makes me feel good. You’ll probably say that plenty of men, and women, abandon their families every year. This is true. Like any human system, brain chemicals don’t work perfectly and are sometimes subject to competing inputs. If someone’s spouse cheats on them, the resultant spill of “anger” chemicals can overwhelm and negate the “happy” chemicals, causing a divorce.

Can we control our emotions? To a point, and some people can do this better than others. I have learned to do so to a point. Thinking is powerful and can cause the release of not only brain chemicals but other chemicals. For example, thinking about the opposite sex naked can cause sexual arousal. But you’re a good Catholic boy so you don’t do that. I’m just teasing you. But at the end of the day, it’s not the thought per se that produce the reaction, in this case, arousal, but the thought that leads to the release of the right chemicals that produces the reaction.[/quote]

So then, you agree with Sloth. I didn’t have any control over the fact that I believe in God, and you don’t have any control over your not-belief in God, and my hopes and desires and loves and everything else are just the result of a big fat cosmic accident.

Did I miss anything?

279

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So what’s to brag about if you can’t help but do it? If religious people are lesser for doing the good under the authority of a “sky wizard,” well, then that’s what we’re drawn to do. If someone else doesn’t have a ‘sky wizard’ chemical addiction, but behaves in the same manner, he only does because he’s built that way? Well, ok, but then why the bragging? He has to do it that way. So, neither basis (to the organic robot crowd) can be better or worse.

And if we reduce it chemical reactions, there is no moral right or wrong (even the less controversial stuff). People are, what they’re supposed to be, after all. Even if rape is morally wrong according to my chemicals, and it repulses me, I can’t project that onto a rapist and be intellectually honest. [/quote]

I didn’t see that you’d posted this before I posted my own reply.

X2

280

[quote]Cortes wrote:

[quote]Sloth wrote:
So what’s to brag about if you can’t help but do it? If religious people are lesser for doing the good under the authority of a “sky wizard,” well, then that’s what we’re drawn to do. If someone else doesn’t have a ‘sky wizard’ chemical addiction, but behaves in the same manner, he only does because he’s built that way? Well, ok, but then why the bragging? He has to do it that way. So, neither basis (to the organic robot crowd) can be better or worse.

And if we reduce it chemical reactions, there is no moral right or wrong (even the less controversial stuff). People are, what they’re supposed to be, after all. Even if rape is morally wrong according to my chemicals, and it repulses me, I can’t project that onto a rapist and be intellectually honest. [/quote]

I didn’t see that you’d posted this before I posted my own reply.

X2
[/quote]

Sad, really.

“Hey, I can misapply a concept, guess that concept is totally wrong!”