Thanks for the reply!
I do need to improve my cholesterol, but it being that low do you really think that’s the cause of my low T? I shall start eating foods with more cholesterol in it.
Also why is Clomid a bad idea? I wasn’t going to start at that high of a dose, maybe with 12.5 every day and check BW after 3 weeks.
And I have taken body temps - my temps run around 97.5-97.8 so you’re probably right with the rT3. I will have to re read that sticky.
My comments re Clomid were aimed at the suggestion that you take 50mg/day. Your approach looks good. You might be one who gets severe estrogenic side effects from Clomid. You can use Nolvadex or roll the dice with Clomid.
SERM’s cannot counteract prolactin.
Thanks.
And I re checked my prolactin levels and they came back at 8 (was 13.7) with the upper limits at 15, so not too concerned about prolactin.
Other than the obvious low T issue, looks like I need to figure out if I have some form of adrenal fatigue (as all my adrenal hormones are low (DHEA, Pregnenolone, Aldosterone, Cortisol, and even E2 and T for that matter)), or if that is from the low cholesterol - however I have not read anywhere where a cholesterol of 137 can cause all those hormone deficiencies - can anyone shed any light on that?
Also need to figure out my reverse T3 issue - I’ve been reading adrenal fatigue can cause this also, so if i can fix my adrenals maybe rT3 can autocorrect.
Steroid hormone - Wikipedia ← linked in the stickies!
Look at the graphic: Steroid hormone - Wikipedia
If cholesterol limits pregnenolone production, everything downstream can be affected to some degree.
“”“Vitamin D3 (cholecalciferol) is produced through the action of ultraviolet irradiation (UV) on its precursor 7-dehydrocholesterol.”“”
“”“Pregnenolone is synthesized from cholesterol. This conversion involves hydroxylation at the side-chain at C20 and C22 positions, with cleavage of the side-chain. The enzyme performing this task is cytochrome P450scc, located in the mitochondria, and controlled by anterior pituitary tropic hormones, such as ACTH, FSH, LH.”“”
So the mitochondria are critical [again]. What is not stated is that the base metabolic rate of the mitochondria is regulated by the thyroid hormones to manage body temperature. So with functional hypothyroidism, everything slows down, including pregnenolone production. We have seen guys with hypothyroidism and low T have T levels rebound with Rx thyroid meds. Some of that effect might within the pituitary, but don’t assume that endocrine glands are not affected by ones thyroid status or other hormone effects. Everything is connected and a pathology in one system can affect the function and health of other systems.
Vit-D25 Calcitriol - Wikipedia
“”“Many of the effects of calcitriol are mediated by its interaction with the calcitriol receptor, also called the vitamin D receptor or VDR. For instance, the unbound inactive form of the calcitriol receptor in intestinal epithelial cells resides in the cytoplasm. When calcitriol binds to the receptor, the ligand-receptor complex translocates to the cell nucleus, where it acts as a transcription factor promoting the expression of a gene encoding a calcium binding protein.”“”
I would not assume from the above that Vit-D25 does not have multiple effects beyond the above. The key point above is that Vit-D25 is a true steroid hormone that affects gene expression.
If you search for Vit-D deficiencies, you will see that there are many associations. I find these troubling as many of the conditions would reduce one’s tendency to be out-of-doors thus limiting sun exposure.
So could I supplement with Pregnenolone and have an increase in all my steroid hormones? Unfortunately I do not eat eggs or meat and other sources would not provide a large amount of cholesterol per serving.
You are not the first here with a mess of hormone issues and a vegetarian diet. I see the problem as your diet, but nothing I can suggest will matter. I will be a shit-head and tell you that your choice may be hormone health or diet.
You can try pregnenolone, but that is a life long commitment. Pregnenolone is very poorly absorbed, so may not be effective. No harm in trying but even if beneficial, it may not resolve your problems. Cholesterol levels are one piece of the puzzle.
The other option then is [TRT and hCG to preserve your testes], or SERM. If you don’t use hCG with TRT, your pregnenolone levels could be reduced.
I also have to point out that there are some guys here who are carnivores that have idiopathic low cholesterol. They are here because, drum roll, their hormones are messed up. Unfortunately, we do not have lab work from any guys with low cholesterol who are normal, active and virile.
I think that trying a SERM would be a good idea. You can see how your body responds. You will want to have labs to see the before/after on TT, FT, E2, LH/FSH. If LH does not increase, your hypothalamus and pituitary are not working right. If LH/FSH increases but T response is poor, then the testes may not be working well enough. The testes will need DHEA as the raw material. When you add LH or hCG you need to wait a few weeks to get the full result as there may be bulk tissue changes[size and structure] that take time before you get to final form and function. If LH is good but T is not good enough, more SERM may lead to high amounts of FT–>E2 inside the testes and that cannot be controlled by anastrozole. If this all works, the testes might make more pregnenolone with the cholesterol that you have. And if this works, you can later try to taper off as in PCT, to see if you can get your HPTA to pick up the gun and run.
If higher LH from SERM or hCG dose creates larger amounts of T–>E2 in your testes, this might be a fix for your low E2. But anything that increases fT will increase fT–>E2.
In any case, you do not need to worry about foods with too much cholesterol.
Trying to get to 10% body fat may be very unhealthy for you. We see carnivores who attempt that who damage their hormones. Just because you think that something is healthy and validate your conviction with major efforts and changes; that does not preclude the possibility that it is totally wrong. If you want a better body image, fix your T and E2 levels and watch the changes.
Thank you so much for the in depth response!
Taking preg lifetime isn’t a problem for me, i’ve already been taking few things everyday and will continue to for life (for example multivitamins, Vit D, DHEA). I’m prepared to do that for my health and hormones. I have already ordered some Preg and will check BW in a few weeks and see how all my hormones have responded to the preg. I will also try to figure something out for the cholesterol part.
I just don’t know if I need to add some adrenal support meds to my protocol as well to help improve my adrenal hormones (or if this is solely related to the low cholesterol)
It’s funny you mention about the body fat, i currently am on my quest to 10% BF, currently sitting at around 14% BF. I feel as if I’ve had these issues even before I attempted cutting, even while I was bulking for years in the past.
The low BF may have compounded the prior problems.
If you increase pregnenolone, things may get better. But perhaps a SERM would still be a good idea.
You have been such a great help and resource KSman. I started eating 3 whole eggs a day, and will start Preg this Wed and re check BW in a month to make sure everything is going in the right direction, also have an endo appointment next week so I will update then!
Quick update:
For some reason since I started taking the pregnenolone I’ve been having chest pressure, shortness of breath and increased anxiety. I stopped it, and seems like things got better, then took it again and the symptoms started again. i’ve been gradually decreasing my dose to see if the symptoms go away. I don’t know if that’s how I react to increased estrogen, if that’s what’s going on? Unless it’s just in my head and I’m associating with the preg.
In other news, I’ve been taking Iodine replacement for the past 5 days and wow I feel like a god right now. I have SO much more energy - normally i’m completely wiped after my workouts in the mornings, but recently i’ve been doing so much stuff after, playing sports, doing my shopping, cleaning the house just because i have the energy. My temps have slightly improved as well - range from 97.5-98.2, before they were 97.3-97.7. I will see where my blood work is at this weekend/early next week when I recheck it - if I still have low T, which I suspect I will, I can only imagine what being on TRT and iodine will feel like…maybe I don’t even need TRT!
The first 5 days of Iodine treatment literally felt like a god with so much energy.
Now the past 3-4 days that has resolved and I’m back to baseline…which sucks. I need to find out how to get back to that feeling again! Blood work coming up this Tuesday morning
So thought I’d give a little update:
Got repeat BW done:
TT: 542
FT: 8.7 (9.3-24)
Estradiol Sensitive: 6 (3-70)
SHBG: 36.5 (16.5-55.9)
I’m still confused with my results. Do’nt know why I have such low Estradiol - may the low Estradiol is what is causing all my “hypogonadal” symptoms. But If I have low E2, that means I don’t have enough Test to convert to the E2?
Also got a Semen analysis. Results showed <100,000 sperm/ml, where normal is around 20 million sperm/ml. I have the results of an infertile man.
I started Clomid at the beginning of the month - to see if my test levels increase at all (whether I’m primary or secondary) and to see if it helps with my sperm count for when I want to have kids. Haven’t felt any relief in the “hypogondal” symptoms in the past 2 weeks I’ve been on Clomid…will be getting BW and semen analysis again next week to check results. I will most probably be stopping Clomid next week as I definitely feel more anxious, moody, depressed, and emotional all around since starting it.
I think the LabCorp E2 Sensitive is fucking useless. Here are my readings on blood drawn the same minute:
E2 Sensitive: 9 3-70
E2 Serum: 25.5 7.6-42
I am pretty sure I dont have E2 that low. I just dont feel it. I’d go with serum from now on.
You need a month on a SERM at least, before a sperm test.
FT is low. Below range [not shown!]?
Low FT, decent TT, higher SHBG. SHBG leads to more T+SHBG that inflates TT. In this case, FT is the better indicator of your T status.
Need ranges on all lab results. Edit your post above, there is an Edit link in the lower RH corner of all of your posts.
I updated the last post with ranges.
I happened to get a normal E2 serum level as well and it came back at 17.9. Of course this makes sense, but everyone always says to get Estradiol sensitive assay? So now I don’t know if my E2 is 6 or 17.9, which is approaching normal lol.
And yes my FT is below range, with the lower end being 9.3. All those tests were pre Clomid. Will be getting BW in 1.5 weeks (which will make a month) to see if Clomid had any effect.
So thought i’d update after being on Clomid for 6 weeks.
Initial semen analysis showed <100K sperm
Repeat performed showed ~95 million!!
Initial TT and FT were ~500 and 8 respectively (labcorp values)
Repeat tests after clomid were…
wait for it…
Total test: 860
Free test: 15.9
My test almost doubled! My estrogen also went up from 6 to 20!! (sensitive assay) Definitely have been feeling better, increased libido, and definitely more pleasure with sex which was a huge issue for me before.
Looks like i can hold off on injections for now!
Any Updates, how has everything been going…still stable
