22 Y/O with Low Test and High Estradiol

Pharma TRT
41

[quote]Igs wrote:
Your numbers are fine. You don’t need 1500 TT. It takes time for DNA changes to occur at cell level. You can’t simply alter you serum blood levels and expect an overnight change.

I get a sense that you might be little obsessive and over analyze things. You sure your sexual performance isn’t linked to performance anxiety? And you’re just driving yourself to this? Are you able to masturbate and have an orgasm? If yes, the problem is in your dome, kid.[/quote]

Fair enough. I will allow another month to allow my body to reprogram itself. I can but I am nowhere near as hard as I should be even with masturbation and that lack of hardness obviously stops penetration during sex from occuring. The other issue is after I couple minutes I loose the erection…

42

[quote]KSman wrote:
I agree, sometimes it takes 6 weeks for TRT to deliver changes and labs done too soon are not really informative.

Libido and sexual function are things that are rooted in your brain, not between your legs. So we are waiting for changes in brain activity and patterns.

You asked why 100mg/week earlier.
-because many do well with that and many fail to get “balanced” on high doses. The fact that some docs Rx high amounts does not really have any bearing.[/quote]

Understood and I will allow another solid month and report results back here. I will continue to follow your protocol laid out to the letter like I am doing now and will post weekly blood results for you to look at. I am sorry once again for pestering you with so many questions and posts.

43

Hey KSMan I got another full set of blood test done up to see the progress from a start to now comparison.

Here are the old results

Serum Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy Vitamin D3 - 90 (50-300)
Homocystein - 9.0 (0.0-15)
Prostate Specific Antigen 0.32 (less than 2.50)
DHEA Sulphate 4900 (1000 - 4000)

Thyroid Funtion Tests
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone - 1.9 (0.40-4.00)
Free Thyroxine (ft4) - 17 (10-20)
Free T3 - 6.0 (2.8-6.8)
Anti Thyroglobulin Ab - Less than 10 (Below 60)
Anti thyroid Peroxidase Ab -33 (Below 60)

All my Haematology parameters are within normal limits for age and sex

My glucose Creatinine Uric Acid ALT AST LD Calcuim Phosphate Albumin Golbulins Cholosterol and Triglcerides are all within normal limits for age and sex

Thyroid Stimulating Hormone - 2.0 (0.40-4.00)
Serum Magnesium - 0.9 (0.7-111)
CRP - 5mg (0-6)
Serum Iron - 18 (10-33)
Transferrin IBC - 71 (45 - 70)
Transferrin Saturation - 26 (16-50)
Serum Ferritin Assay -35(20-320)
Serum Cortisol - 420 (220 - 660)
Erthrocyte Sedimentation Rate 2mm/ph (1-15)
Serum Vitimin B12 Assay - 519 (162-811)
Red Cell Folate Assay - 769 (545-3370)
IGF-1 - 63 (17-42)
Prolactin -7 (Less than 15)
Luteinizing hormone -5 (3-20)
Follicle Stimulating hormone - 5 (3-20)

Now we get to the worrying things for me

Oestradiol 191 (less than 150) Yes that is not a typo mine is 191…
Progesterone - 3 (less than 3)
Testosteone 13 (10-33)
Free Testosteone 35 (60-130) Not even on the low side here…
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin - 17 (13-71)

Here are the new results done 2 days ago

Serum Vitamin D 25 Hydroxy Vitamin D3 - 100 (50-300)
Homocystein - 9.0 (0.0-15)
Prostate Specific Antigen 0.48 (less than 2.50)
DHEA Sulphate 4900 (1000 - 4000)
Total Cholesterol 6.2 nmol/l (below 4.0)
Triglycerides 0.5 nmol (below 2.0)
HDL 1.64 nmol/l (above 0.9)
LDL 3.97nmol (below 2.0)

Thyroid Funtion Tests
Thyroid Stimulating Hormone - 4.5 (0.40-4.00) How could this have gone up if I have been taking 50mg of iodine every day? this is way higher!!!
Free Thyroxine (ft4) - 17 (10-20)
Free T3 - 6.7 (2.8-6.8)
Anti Thyroglobulin Ab - 16 u/ml (Below 60)
Anti thyroid Peroxidase Ab -15 u/ml (Below 60)

Full blood Examination
Haemoglobin -163 (135-180)
Red Cell Count - 5.8 (4.2-6.0)
Haematocrit- 0.49 (0.38-0.52)
Mean Cell Volume - 84 (80-98)
Mean Cell haemoglobin - 28 (27-35)
Platelet Count - 188 (150-450)
White Cell Count - 4.8 (4.0-11)
Neutrophils - 2.8 (2.0-7.5)
Lymphocytes - 1.8 (1.1-4.0)
Monocytes - 0.4 (0.2-1.0)
Eosinophils - 0.29 (0.04-0.40)
Basophils - 0.05 (Less than 0.21)
Serum Magnesium - 0.9 (0.7-1.1)
CRP - 5mg (0-6)
Serum Iron - 16 (10-33)
Transferrin IBC - 71 (45 - 70)
Transferrin Saturation - 23 (16-50)
Serum Ferritin Assay -56(20-320)
Serum Cortisol -540 (220 - 660)
Erthrocyte Sedimentation Rate 5mm/ph (1-15)
Serum Vitimin B12 Assay - 575 (162-811)
Red Cell Folate Assay - 653 (545-3370)
IGF-1 - 55 (17-42)
Serum Folate Assay -19.4 nmol/l (8.4-55.0)
Prolactin -7 (Less than 15)
Luteinizing hormone -6 (3-20)
Follicle Stimulating hormone - 9 (3-20)

Serum Chemistry - Fasting
Sodium - 144 (137-149)
Potassium - 4.1 (3.5-5.0)
Chloride - 102 (96-109)
Bicarbonate - 26 (25-33)
Other Anions - 19 (4-17)
Glucose - 5.0 (3.0-6.0)
Urea - 7.0 (2.5-8.0)
Creatine - 87 (60-130)
EGFR - 90 (Over 59)
Uric Acid - 0.40 (0.12-0.45)
Total Bilirubin - 12 (2-20)
Alk. Phos.- 73 (30-115)
Gamma GT - 21 (0-70)
ALT - 32 (0-45)
AST - 38 (0-41)
LD - 187 (80-250)
Calcium 2.41 (2.25-2.65)
Adjusted for Albumin 2.34 (2.25 - 2.65)
Phosphate 1.2 (0.8-1.5)
Total protein - 72 (60-82)
Albumin - 45 (35-50)
Globulins - 25 (20-40)
Cholestrol - 6.0 (3.1-6.5)
Triglicerides 0.5 (0.3 - 2.2)

Now we get to the worrying things for me

Oestradiol 123 (less than 150) still cannot get to the magic 80!!!
Progesterone - 3 (less than 3)
Testosteone 23 (10-33)
Free Testosteone - 651 pmol/l (150-700)
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin - 19 (13-71)

Obvioulsy my biggest concern is what the hell is wrong with my thyroid? I followed your iodine protocol to the letter yet my thyroid function seems to have gotten worse!! Any help is very much appreciated :slight_smile:

44

Never mind I just watched this video and i think it explains why my TSH has gone up yet I am feeling better…

Thank you once again KSMan because without your initial info there is no way I would have done all the additional research I have. I have gone completely organic in the way of skin care products and am buying a reverse osmosis water filter since australia puts fluroide into our water which is a halogen that completely destroys our endocrine systems. I am doing everything I can to bring down my exposure to chemicals that become estrogen in our bodies as well as taking vitamins that help get toxic halogens out of our bodies. BTW I woke up with a terrible headache after taking spirilina for the first time yesterday which Is a side effect of toxins being removed from the body so I suppose that is a good thing :slight_smile:

My main focus atm is to increase testosterone naturally, decrease estrogen and improve the function of my thyroid. Any other information you can add would be much appreciated.

45

Hello Nozza

Which Iodine supplement you are taking, can you post a link to website where you bought it ?

Thanks

46

I am an aussie so I had to go into a pharmacy and ask for it since we in OZ classify such potent doses of iodine as “poison” and is meant to be used solely by compounding chemists. The brand i got is

http://www.davidcraig.net.au/products/general-medicines/aqueous-iodine-solution/1246/

8 drops = 50mg just so you dont overdose on the stuff :slight_smile:

47

LH - 8 IU/L (3-20)
FSH - 8 IU/L (3-20)
Oestradiol - 175 (Optimum is 80 according to your numbers KSMan)
Free Testosterone (Calc) 1101 - (150 - 700)
Testosterone - 37 nmol (10-33) which equals 1067 pmol

This has been done completely naturally thanks to following the advice of Anabolic men but you see the problem is my still high estrogen. I seem to be an anastrozole under responder so I am going to take 0.5mg daily for the next week and get retested next monday morning to see where my numbers sit. Any Ideas KSMan on why my body is so dam good at aromitising test into E?

The other good news is that my weight has stayed the same but I have dropped about 3.5% bodyfat in 2 weeks :slight_smile:

48

LH - 8 IU/L (3-20)
FSH - 8 IU/L (3-20)

  • may be leading to more T–>E2 inside the testes [where anastrozole cannot work]

DHEA is higher, assume that you are not supplementing [ and is Rx there]. Some [sort of rare] convert DHEA–>E2 freely.

Some zinc in your diet?

Are you getting any selenium in your diet?

49

KSman wrote:
LH - 8 IU/L (3-20)
FSH - 8 IU/L (3-20)

  • may be leading to more T–>E2 inside the testes [where anastrozole cannot work]

DHEA is higher, assume that you are not supplementing [ and is Rx there]. Some [sort of rare] convert DHEA–>E2 freely.

Some zinc in your diet?

Are you getting any selenium in your diet?

I am taking 30 mg of Zinc everyday and over 10 brazil nuts for my selenium. They say just 2 equals your daily recommended dose of Selenium. I dont know what else to do except double my dosage on anastrozole. I am finally getting my test sorted out it just seems like my E does not want to play ball!!

What is optimal LH FSH numbers KSMan?

50

Hey KSman here are my latest blood test results

LH - 6 IU/L (3-20)
FSH - 7 IU/L (3-20)
Oestradiol - 164 (Optimum is 80 according to your numbers KSMan)
Free Testosterone (Calc) 601 - (150 - 700)
Testosterone - 23 nmol (10-33) which equals 1067 pmo
Sex hormone Binding Globulin 24 (13-71)

I have taken 7mg of anastrozole the past week and yet my E2 has only dropped by 11 pmol. I dont know what else to do to get my estrogen down… Please help!!!

51

What else are you taking for those labs? Still on SERM? If so, that may be creating fT–>E2 inside the testes that anastrozole cannot reach.

52

[quote]KSman wrote:
What else are you taking for those labs? Still on SERM? If so, that may be creating fT–>E2 inside the testes that anastrozole cannot reach.

[/quote]

I have stopped taking the serm all together for the past couple of weeks.

here is what I am taking

Spirulina
B1
B2
Omega 3
Vit C
Vit D
ZMA
IODINE 12.mg orally and 38mg painted onto my balls following the iodine painting protocol
Selenium (from brazil nuts)
K2

And of course anastrozole

Everything else is perfect, my fat is dropping off of me thanks to my very high test muslce mass is up, appetite is up energy is though the roof but the last piece of the puzzle for me at least is the sexual stuff. I get an erection and 5 minutes later i loose it which I hear is a side of high E2. Once i get my E to 80 i think my life will be pretty amazing especially if i can keep my test around 1000

(last test results i think went down thanks to not eating as much good fat and a poor nights sleep before the blood test)

I mean with the amount of anaztrozole i am taking i would expect and E level of 0 and to feel like death warmed up yet my E2 is still double what you/the experts recommend.

Before you ask, getting my T up has resulting in a slight increase in sex drive and i can now have sex without Viagra but I am still having the issue of loosing erections after 5-10 minutes.
Any suggestions?

53

Another question: Is the anastrozole from a pharmacy or? Wondering if the anastrozole is bogus.

54

The anastrozole is from a pharmacy and it is medically prescibed by a doctor. That is just what I dont understand. 7mg in a week should nuke my E2 levels to 0 yet it does not even make an indent at all. I am literally at a loss here KSman. I have managed to fix all my other issues from test to free test to thyroid function to my testicle function of lh fsh yet nothing seems to bring my E2 down.

I have tried removing all pro estrogen bodywashes, floridated toothpaste and am filtering my water to get rid of all chlorine and floride. I am literally living like a hippy to remove my exposure to any man made chemicals that disrupt the sensitive endocrine system and am even using metal waterbottle and steel frying pans.

I have been using DIM and Calcium D Glutarate to naturally remove E2 from my body yet nothing seems to make the smallest impact on my E2 levels whatsover.

Have you ever seen anything like this before? All my other test numbers are pretty much perfect, the difference between how i felt 3 months ago is like a black bag has been taken off my head yet the E2 is still mucking up the one thing most important to me!!!

Any suggestions on what to try now?

Cheers for your help KSman :slight_smile:

55

Time to try a different drug. There is letrozole, can be hard to dose right. If that also does not work, that would also be odd. Aromasin is a completely different beast.

If anastrozole works for you, your high estradiol production must be inside your testes. You had high LH/FSH earlier but not now. So we don’t know whats going on, but we can try the different drugs. We have not had a failure for anastrozole to work outside of high LH.

I don’t see any need to go overboard with selenium. You can reduce to a normal level to take that off the board as a possible factor.

Maybe iodine is affecting your testes, try painting elsewhere. Remove the possible factor,

56

Quick question i have been running on average 3.5mg of adex (anastrozole) and my E2 is still not coming down.

I asked my ex girlfriends sister who is a geneticist why this could be. Apparently adex works in 99% of people but it is possible to have different shaped isoforms that adex does not recognise.

So I am going to start Letrozole, which targets the other shape or something like that according to her. Since I have never done a cycle and my current E2 level of 40, goal is to get them to 22, what dose would you recommend? I obviously want results but i hear letro is harsh as hell and dont want to shut down my E and deal with all the shitty sides!!!

Could i use aromosin instead as it seems like it is less harsh than letro but does a good job of stopping t into e?

57

how are you nozza ? is letro helped you ? where did you found this natural program from anabolics men, could you share with this info ?

58

Ok so it has been a long time since I posted here.

Quick update. I took letro for a while and while doing all the stuff off anabolic men got me incredible results I had an awesome libido and my erections were perfect, I dropped lots of fat and gained muscle. Everything was great!!

Here were my results then

LH - 9 IU/L (3-20)
FSH - 10 IU/L (3-20)
Oestradiol - 115 (Optimum is 80 according to your numbers KSMan)
Free Testosterone (Calc) 1280 - (150 - 700)
Testosterone - 42 nmol (10-33)
Sex hormone Binding Globulin 19 (13-71)

I then tapered off with the help of shadow pro and everything was fine for the last 5 months. As of 1 month ago i have started to get gyno in my left nipple which i thought was weird. I got bloods done again and was absolutely shocked/devistated.

The results are

LH - 2 IU/L (3-20)
FSH - 5 IU/L (3-20)
Oestradiol - 163 (Optimum is 80 according to your numbers KSMan)
Free Testosterone (Calc) 200 - (150 - 700)
Testosterone - 9 nmol (10-33)
Sex hormone Binding Globulin 29 (13-71)

So as you can see my test has died and my E2 is though the roof again. The weird thing is my dick works great still but my nipple is getting more and more painful and enlarged. Any suggestions? Time to jump back on the Letro and accept i am on it for life?

It seems like I convert test to estrogen at an amazing rate…

PS nothing new changed from when i was on letro till now. Diet, sleep, supps, training all remained the same so its not like i moved house next to a birth control factory and started drinking their waste water…

KSman is Here
59

This confirms you’re secondary. Your LH/FSH on letrozole increased dramatically and lead to awesome T levels, no problem in the testes. I wish I had that sort of result when I tried anastrozole. Anyway, I would advise you try one last time an hpta restart as suggested in the stickies, see if you can stand on your feet. It’s different to produce T on Serms or AI.

If T levels don’t stand on their feet after the hpta restart, TRT it is.

60

Your least cost/effort solution is go back onto the AI. But your LH/FSH then was too high, causing high T–>E2 inside the testes and competitive AI’s do not work inside the testes, so E2 was above optimal. Your testes were used to high LH so whatever normal amounts you can make afterwards simply say “slow down”. An odd case, but a glimmer of hope that a simple oral med routine may provide a good result.

Letro is quite harsh in that one’s dose-response is not very predictable as we see with anastrozole.
But letro was working. Try 1/2 the dose of letro that you were doing before. You might get under the threshold where testicular T–>E2 gets out of controls.

The above is the same old story, dose too high, LH too high, high T–>E2 inside the testes where a competitive AI cannot work because it cannot compete because intratesticular T levels could be 100 time higher than serum T levels. If you use hCG in higher amounts, the exact same thing will happen.

AI’s reduce E2 levels when LH is not out of control. Once E2 levels increase, an AI does nothing to protect breast tissue or the prostate, the cat is out of the bag. A SERM will increase LH and protect estrogen sensitive tissues to some degree. You could try lower dose serm to combat your gyno, perjaps combined with low dose AI. You should be doing labs to monitor what going on with LH/FSH and E2 as dosing guide. As always, Nolvadex will avoid the problems with Clomid side effects that some guys experience.