I went back through some of this thread and have a question. Did you ever do a regular PCT through any of this? Just Nolva 40/40/20/20/20 or Clomid?
I tried tamoxifen from the same peptide company I got the cabergoline from. Now I think both the caber and the tamoxifen were bunk, but I started TRT back in November. I suppose I could try a PCT, but I’d really rather avoid just another hormonal rollercoaster like the first couple months I was on TRT with estrogen going way too high then low. Perhaps if I had the money sometime in the future for frequent bloodwork and actual medical supervision, I could attempt a PCT. I’ve been on HCG my entire therapy, granted the dosage has been adjusted a couple times, but I’ve noticed relatively little to no testicular atrophy. I actually think my testicular size corresponds somewhat to my estrogen (specifically estrogen imbalances). Back when I was really dialed in on the proviron in March/April and had a really strong libido, my testicles were firm and normal sized, maybe even slightly larger, and hung normally. Times that I’m not dialed in, such as before and after that period, they tuck up towards my body and seem smaller and tender. regardless of size, I believe the HCG has preserved testicular function, warranting a PCT in the future.
As of right now, I’m at a too important part of my life to suffer attempting a PCT without supervision. My doctor seems pretty unintelligent on a lot of things, and I don’t have the money to switch to defy or whoever and pay for bloodwork.
My source is saying the proviron order should’ve arrived today. I will add that I ordered a 10ml vial of testosterone cyp in the order, just to have extra on hand in case I run into trouble refilling my own. I’ve had times where I’ll miss an injection or two because I can’t refill until literally the day I run out… really annoying.
I’m going to start the proviron as soon as I pick it up and will report back how it goes.
You seem a little unclear on what some of these things do. HCG mimics LH, so your balls would be working the entire time, in proportion to you dose of HCG.
Proviron is a “weak” androgen, in the same family as Anavar. It would absolutely improve libido, but is suppressive (there is some argument about this) as it is an androgen in your system and will affect pituitary signalling. In other words, you total test will actually drop on it due to decreased production.
PCT is not just about testicular function, you are signalling the pituitary to wake up and start putting out LH.Without the LH or HCG your balls do nothing.
Your big problem has been too many moving parts, and a lack of patience honestly.
Sorry for late response. I’m aware of how HCG works, mimicking LH. They are very similarly structured (I think). By preserving testicular function, I was trying to say that basically my testicles have been producing testosterone throughout the course of my therapy in response to HCG administration.
I agree that I’ve been very impatient. The whole process has just been frustrating. I believe what really sent me in the wrong direction was realizing how well I responded to tyrosine. I now realize that anybody would probably experience a strong boost in libido from dosing tyrosine so high, but it made me think that I was dopamine deficient and I started trying all different solutions to that.
You might be dopamine deficient just from low free T, actually. You need free T to fuel the production of catecholamines and serotonin. The high dose tyrosine probably burned out some receptors. You have to be a little careful with that, serotonin and dpoamine are produced in a balance via the same pathway. You can kill production of one by overdoing production of the other. For example, high dose 5 HTP will ramp p serotonin levels and make you feel great, but crash the dopamine followed by a serotonin crash.
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To add on to that, I have a question for the TRT community. Has anyone else felt better on a lower dose of TRT? I’m looking for experience libido-wise between differences like 200mg weekly and 100mg weekly. I know the recommended starting dose is 100, but I’ve never dipped below 140 for fear that my situation would only get worse. Doesn’t it make sense that, regardless of dose, higher TT/FT with E2 in control would result in a higher libido? I’m still sticking on my current dose for the remaining 4 weeks before I get stable, accurate bloodwork, but I’m just curious the answer to this question. If my results come back and my TT is +1000 or something and E2 is within reason, I think it’d be worth trying getting my TT down to 700-800. I ask because of a thread on this forum all about feeling better on a lower dose. How have people felt with higher TT/FT vs lower TT/FT but the same E2 in both cases? Is the T:E ratio important?
I’ve realized my issues aren’t really based in neurotransmitters and have to be hormonal. My doses/levels had been steady for a month or two during that period where my libido was strong. I experience joy and have never felt any depression throughout the course of my therapy, so I really doubt that dopamine deficiency is related in any significant way to my lack of libido.
I’ve added in the proviron and will be testing bloodwork in 4 weeks after being on the same dose for a total of 6 weeks. I will make further adjustments from there, but no other changes until then.
That’s another thing that I’ve considered. The effects of tyrosine were drastically reduced with each dose, and so I researched it and learned about dopamine receptors and figured I had probably downregulated them quite a bit. As of right now, I’m taking zero supplements related to brain function other than the Wellbutrin and caffeine from here forward.
The free T thing is something I was unaware of. If you know any good articles explaining this, could you link them? I’m going to research this when I get home.
SARMs are notorious for crashing SHBG, greatly boosting free t, and then that rxtra Free T results in any of the Estrogen/DHT sides people get from SARMs. I did always feel euphoric for the first parts of SARMs cycles, and what you just said makes me think that the spike in Free T I was experiencing was ramping up dopamine and/or serotonin.
Knowing your Free T is critical to dialing in, it’s the true measure of your protocol. You can calculate your Free T percentage based off your Total T and SHBG which is more accurate than Free T measured directly.
I can look for some articles when I get a chance. The thing with SARMs is that they are mild androgens. They aren’t test, they are closer to the Anavar family of steroids, so they will cause at least mild suppression and lower test levels, but boost you overall androgen levels. I don’t have a study to back up the following idea, so FWIW, they are activating a lot of receptors and the overall higher androgen level is what drives down SHBG, resulting in more free test even though your overall test level is dropping. You get a resulting boost to libido and “feeling good” from this. Oral steroids like Halotestin do the same thing, but on a much bigger scale and with way more sides and liver damage. Easy to trigger jaundice with that kind of thing.
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I came off wellbutrin (was on it 5 years) after being on TRT close to a year and I feel much better without it. I didn’t realize I had anxiety until I came off the wellbutrin and basically have zero worries about the stuff I normally would worry about. Not sure that helps you but figured I’d let you know since you are on it.
Interesting… any changes in libido on vs off? Any negative withdrawal effects?
My libido was pretty high while on it (after getting trt right) and it stayed high when I came off the wellbutrin. I was on 300 xl and went to 150 xl for 10 days then 150 xl every other day for 7 days and then 150 xl every 3rd day for 7 days (then nothing). I had zero withdrawal symptoms. The only difference I feel being off is lower heart rate, less anxiety (basically no anxiety), and better sleep.
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Just updating my thread.
On another thread, I’ve been learning about the importance of thyroid health. Thanks to dextermorgan for referring me to stop the thyroid madness .com . I’ve been learning a lot about the thyroid and it’s hormones, which is way more complex and harder to understand than sex hormones. I still don’t feel like I fully grasp how it works but anyways:
I think my problem could be related to iron deficiency. I’m not just gonna start supplementing iron and see if things work out, I’m gonna do it right and get bloodwork first. Anyways, my diet doesn’t contain too much red meat or other foods high in iron, and on top of that I consume a lot of whey/casein protein since it makes keeping a high protein intake much more convenient with my busy work schedule. A quick google search revealed that high whey/casein protein intake disrupts iron absorption. I’m going to get all the labs recommended on the thyroid website, which includes iron, and see how things look.
Another just personal update. I came to this forum to seek the advice that I would get from a TRT expert, lol a real doctor with experience on Hormone replacement, which my prescribing doctor is not. All this time, I’ve hidden my steroid abuse and therapy from my parents (I’m 19) and paid out of pocket for the cheapest doctor I could get, but yesterday it finally came up and I just told them everything and they were very supportive and understanding, saying my health is very important. They don’t fully understand TRT, but they’ve offered to help me with some of these initial expenses regarding bloodwork and such while I figure this shit out. They may help me switch to defy. So there’s that!
Any mineral will disrupt the absorption of any other mineral, and that protein is going to be high in Calcium. You have a limited ability to process minerals, and they all get into your system in the same transport. Calcium, Copper, Zinc, Iron and Magnesium are all competitors for the same transport.
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I take ZMA at night and Boron in morning. Would it be smart to take iron around midday, if I start it?
Edit: and of course, If I am deficient in iron, I would limit use of milk proteins
You want a 3- 4 hour separation ideally, so that would be fine
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Ordering blood tests now. Placing an order for
TSH
FT4
FT3
DHEA-s
Iron, TIBC
Ferritin
CMP
CBC
IGF-1
Any other tests you guys recommend?
I’d throw a reverse t3 in there too
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Forgot to write that one in. Ordered RT3 too, I’m predicting that ones gonna be the culprit. My prediction is low iron from excess blood donation/poor diet which has raised rt3.
A vitamin C deficiency could lead to low iron and iron deficiency which could be as simple as poor diet, an easy fix.
You can’t absorb iron if you don’t have vitamin C, vitamin C regulates iron metabolism.
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