162 Years With No Possibility of Parole....Fair?

Dr_Matt581 · July 6, 2012, 2:49am

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t get why you would allow that sort of sentencing instead of sentencing someone to death.
It’s just about the same thing.
If there is a parole date in sight, that’s something to strive for. Same with good behavior.
Most people that I met in prison had a fucked up perspective wrt life because they’ve had such limited experiences in theirs. For me, one of the biggest factors in “fixing” my fucked up life, was being removed from the environment and people that I had immersed and surrounded myself with.[/quote]

Hmm, now there’s an interesting perspective. This is essentially the death sentence, only instead of lethal injection his imposed method of euthanasia is extended confinement. To me, this is more cruel than simply injecting him.

So, I would like to know, if the judge had sentenced him to die quickly at the point of a needle rather than sentencing him to die slowly at the hands of his own mortality, would those of you whom agree with his punishment still agree?[/quote]

Yes, simply because the only type of criminal justice system I have seen do anything to really make crime rates go down is one that is extremely severe. I would actually not mind hard labor prisons. The Soviet Union was horrible, but our general crime rates were very, very low. It works, plain and simple.

angry_chicken · July 6, 2012, 2:57am

[quote]GorillaMon wrote:
Ok then AC: Let me put it like this: What’s ultimately more important?

Giving a SERIAL criminal another crack of the whip (despite the fact most violent criminals re-offend) OR the protection of the public?

Why should the MAJORITY suffer because of the actions of such a despicable few?
[/quote]

Obviously a SERIAL criminal belongs in prison. The public ought to be protected. Locking up an 18 year old young man for 162 years with out the possibility of parole for crimes where no one was shot or injured is excessive.

And while you are correct that MANY violent criminals re-offend, there are a few (albeit a slightly less despicable few) who actually go on to lead productive lives.

If ANY of you judgemental fucks were beaten with extension cords, broomsticks and belts by your mother’s first three husbands (number two read scripture to me while he beat me) and then were kicked out of your house and onto the streets of inner Baltimore City a week before your sixteenth birthday with broken ribs, I doubt VERY seriously that any of you would have fared HALF as well as I did. Most of you wouldn’t have lasted a week. I did what I had to do to survive and yes, that involved breaking the law. So I ended up in prison.

While in prison I was exposed to the writtings of Bo Lozoff and began to change my way of thinking. After getting shot down for parole the first time (got stabbed to many times) I applied for and was accepted into the MD correctional bootcamp program and worked with a councillor named Sam Giglia who further challenged me and helped me deal with my anger. He helped me create a set of values (my parents never bothered) and a code to live by.

When I got out, I got a job, got a trade, rose to the top of that trade, started a mortgage career, used that money start a bunch of other companies including a successful renewable energy company and a marketing company that I still own, bought and sold a bunch of real estate, was managing partner in a mortgage company, Got hired by a BANK to run their streamline division (an armed robber working for a bank - ironic?) and then got my mortgage career ripped out from under me by a change in regulation (thank you Barney Frank) so now I work on oil rigs. I’ve never collected unemployment a DAY in my life.

I have spoken in prisons, churches and town hall meetings. I have mentored HUNDREDS of young men and helped them move in a positive direction. I am a father, an uncle, a godfather and a step father. I’ve sat on the board of several non-profits and successfully lobied my Senator to grant funding to a manufacturing facilty in Prince George’s County, MD that created over 200 jobs. I used my connections to help raise money for an environmentally friendly “Green” supermarket currently being built in Washington DC - more than a hundred jobs in an area riddled with crime and where it’s needed the most. A felon without a HS diploma, much less a college degree… I can’t even VOTE in Virginia, but I let my passion and my belief in the POTENTIAL OF PEOPLE make an even bigger difference.

Judge me all you want, but I’ve made a bigger fucking DIFFERENCE and have accomplished more both personally and politically than most of you who sit there smugly thinking to your selves, “they should have thrown away the key”.

That’s MY story. That’s HOW I came to be a felon and what I did with my life after a few years in prison.

Imagine JUST FOR A MOMENT that we took more first time offenders- kids under 20 who’s fathers walked out and who’s mothers couldn’t control them- and actually HELPED them become better people… Imagine giving them an OUNCE of self esteem and self worth, cuz that’s all they need - that’s enough to plant the seed… Imagine how our society would look in a few generations where these kids have turned around and invested in their communities and helped another generation further invest… Do you think our society just MIGHT look a little differently than it does now?

Fiscally we could spend ~100K in three years housing and rehabilitating an individual rather than spending almost a MILLION taxpayer dollars housing the same person for 30 years. That person MIGHT even keep a few young men going to prison and further save OUR hard earned money that won’t be needed to house the next generation who are walking on the razor’s edge…

But if you want to take the moral highground and stick your head in the sand that’s fine by me - this IS PWI after all. But I would sincerely invite you to take your head out of your ass and see that rehabilitation is a FAR more effective “cure” for violence than locking 'em up and throwing away the key. Society is SAFER when there are people out there who are actively trying to HELP teenagers do the right thing and have been down that road and know what they’re talking about and how to communicate that message. My .02 - take it or leave it.

TigerTime · July 6, 2012, 3:10am

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t get why you would allow that sort of sentencing instead of sentencing someone to death.
It’s just about the same thing.
If there is a parole date in sight, that’s something to strive for. Same with good behavior.
Most people that I met in prison had a fucked up perspective wrt life because they’ve had such limited experiences in theirs. For me, one of the biggest factors in “fixing” my fucked up life, was being removed from the environment and people that I had immersed and surrounded myself with.[/quote]

Hmm, now there’s an interesting perspective. This is essentially the death sentence, only instead of lethal injection his imposed method of euthanasia is extended confinement. To me, this is more cruel than simply injecting him.

So, I would like to know, if the judge had sentenced him to die quickly at the point of a needle rather than sentencing him to die slowly at the hands of his own mortality, would those of you whom agree with his punishment still agree?[/quote]

Yes, simply because the only type of criminal justice system I have seen do anything to really make crime rates go down is one that is extremely severe. I would actually not mind hard labor prisons. The Soviet Union was horrible, but our general crime rates were very, very low. It works, plain and simple.
[/quote]

You’re a logical man, Dr.Matt.

A question for you specifically, which sentence would you prefer this man to get; his current sentence, or 10 years in a hard labour prison?

Dr_Matt581 · July 6, 2012, 3:17am

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t get why you would allow that sort of sentencing instead of sentencing someone to death.
It’s just about the same thing.
If there is a parole date in sight, that’s something to strive for. Same with good behavior.
Most people that I met in prison had a fucked up perspective wrt life because they’ve had such limited experiences in theirs. For me, one of the biggest factors in “fixing” my fucked up life, was being removed from the environment and people that I had immersed and surrounded myself with.[/quote]

Hmm, now there’s an interesting perspective. This is essentially the death sentence, only instead of lethal injection his imposed method of euthanasia is extended confinement. To me, this is more cruel than simply injecting him.

So, I would like to know, if the judge had sentenced him to die quickly at the point of a needle rather than sentencing him to die slowly at the hands of his own mortality, would those of you whom agree with his punishment still agree?[/quote]

Yes, simply because the only type of criminal justice system I have seen do anything to really make crime rates go down is one that is extremely severe. I would actually not mind hard labor prisons. The Soviet Union was horrible, but our general crime rates were very, very low. It works, plain and simple.
[/quote]

You’re a logical man, Dr.Matt.

A question for you specifically, which sentence would you prefer this man to get; his current sentence, or 10 years in a hard labour prison? [/quote]

I think 10 years of hard labor with the possibility of parole would be acceptable. Hard labor works, especially like in the Soviet Union where if you misbehaved or were a repeat offender then you were given even less food and harder work (the general population of the Soviet Union was starving so how much food do you think even the best behaved prisoners got?)

The bottom line is that the punishment needs to be severe enough to discourage people from becoming criminals and it is just not working in the US right now. If you were worked nearly to death and barely fed for your labor, you would definitely think twice about robbing someone.

angry_chicken · July 6, 2012, 3:30am

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]angry chicken wrote:
SHAME on all of you who think this is “justice”. He was 18 at the time of his crimes, did not hurt anyone in the commission of his crimes, was not the ring-leader in the string of robberies, the other participants got 9 - 22 years but he got 162 years? On his first offence? Wasn’t offered a plea bargain? That’s bullshit.

What some of you forget is that HUMANS have the capacity to EVOLVE. I am living proof of it. You see, this guy is ME 20 years ago. I committed a string of armed robberies from age 16 - 18. I got busted on one and was snitched out on the others. I was sentanced to TEN years and served FOUR years. It was my first offence as an adult (I had juvenile convictions). I did my time and learned my lesson and STILL had enough time to get myself on track and become successful in several careers. I have fathered two amazing chldren and I have become a POSITIVE member of my community and have helped other young men avoid making the same mistakes that I did.

If you look at my balance sheet, I’ve paid my debt to society MANY times over. WHY? Because I was given the opportunity to change, not locked in a hole for the rest of my life. That isn’t JUSTICE.

If you take the time to look a few layers deeper into ANY young criminal, myself included, and you’ll find a childhood that would chill you to the bone. These young men didn’t have a chance given their experiences growing up. They grew up only trying to SURVIVE, Yet you see fit to throw them away and discard them for LIFE as you sit comfortably in your home, never having even GLIMPSED their shoes, never mind walking a few steps in them. It’s been my overwhelming experience that people who hold the “lock 'em up and throw away the key” attitude are:
-white
-upper class (or cops, emt, firefighters)
-born with a silver spoon
-NEVER spent time anywhere NEAR an inner city environment
-NEVER spent time with ANY ‘low-class’ people
-View the world as black and white
-Are generally self-righteous pricks
-Tend to be racist or closet racist

Shame on all of you who think that it’s a good thing to throw this young man’s life away.[/quote]

You can throw up all the sob stories about a hard life you want, but it will never change the fact that this man made the choice to be a criminal and now he is paying the price as well as serving as an example to others. And before you bring up the “silver spoon” thing, Yes I am a member of the upper class now, but I grew up in a poor family in the Soviet Union, we can compare stories if you like, but I would rather not.

In the Soviet Union, we had three main types of criminals: people with mental disorders who really did not know any better, members of the Communist Party who were powerful enough to not get arrested, and political dissidents. It was almost unheard of to see people robbing each other even though we were all starving and dirty and cold. Do you know why?

Because the punishment for almost any crime was hard labor, and survival rates in the labor camps were not good and the ones who did make it back were very ill and usually maimed in some way. It didn’t matter if you killed a dozen men or stole a loaf of bread or were a political dissident, you were sentenced to several years in the “gulag.”

The labor camps had even less food then us poor people, and not too many people were going to risk being starved or worked to death or crippled. In the US you can at least count on semi adequate food and a decent chance of being alive and not crippled after coming out of prison and conditions like in the gulag would be considered “cruel and unusual” here so now the only thing to do is to make the sentences really long.

If you knew that holding up a 7-11 meant the rest of your life in prison, how many people do you think would make the choice to become a criminal? Some would, yes, but not nearly as many.
[/quote]

You simply CANNOT compare the good old days of the Soviet Union and the fact that, “you were all poor and starving - but crime was LOW cuz you got sent to the work camp for ten years for stealing a loaf of bread” so THAT’S what the good old USA should do, cuz it WORKED! (never mind that whole “Constitution” thing we have over here - we can just throw that out the window). If it was so great over there and crime was so low, why did you leave?

Of course crime is low in what essentially amounts to a POLICE STATE! American society in NOTHING LIKE the society where you grew up! Not even a little bit. LOGIC FAIL.

You’re implying that in America there exists personal responsibility. LMMFAO. You see here in OUR “wonderful society” we have popular music that actively promotes criminal behavior. Our first ammendment allows them to do this. MTV shows how successful you can be if you represent the East Coast or the West Coast enough to where you KILL each other. Our MEDIA emasculates our men and exagerates our bad news so that we live in a constant state of FEAR. It also promotes a ridicuouls policy of political correctness that serves ONLY to give them fodder to publically humiliate/crucify ANYONE who dares to say ANYTHING these liberal fucks find offensive. We pay our teachers and police officers SHIT but expect them to raise our kids and keep our communities safe FOR US. Our video games teach our kids that they can hit “reset” and get a new life. Our politicians tell us they are “tough on crime” cuz they continue to wage an idiodic “war on drugs” while almost 40% use weed and nearly 70% of Americans have tried weed… Our divorce rates are above 50%, most kids are raised without a father, our younger generation feels that they are ENTITLED to a job (but don’t want to get their hands dirty). In fact they wan’t the Gov’t to forgive all their student loans because that major in underwater basket weaving didn’t quite turn out the way they imagined it would. But why not? Here in our little league teams even the losing team gets a trophy and gets to feel good about themselves! We can’t buy ALCOHOL until we are 21, but we can take up arms and go kill and die for our country 18… Those of us who are sick and tired of it can’t even get out because if we leave the IRS will STILL demand our money.

And you think we as a culture are MATURE enough at 18 to have personal responsibility?

That’s the funiest thing I’ve read all night.

angry_chicken · July 6, 2012, 3:32am

Just for the record Dr.Matt, I’ve read some of your posts and respect your journey.

angry_chicken · July 6, 2012, 3:42am

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t get why you would allow that sort of sentencing instead of sentencing someone to death.
It’s just about the same thing.
If there is a parole date in sight, that’s something to strive for. Same with good behavior.
Most people that I met in prison had a fucked up perspective wrt life because they’ve had such limited experiences in theirs. For me, one of the biggest factors in “fixing” my fucked up life, was being removed from the environment and people that I had immersed and surrounded myself with.[/quote]

Hmm, now there’s an interesting perspective. This is essentially the death sentence, only instead of lethal injection his imposed method of euthanasia is extended confinement. To me, this is more cruel than simply injecting him.

So, I would like to know, if the judge had sentenced him to die quickly at the point of a needle rather than sentencing him to die slowly at the hands of his own mortality, would those of you whom agree with his punishment still agree?[/quote]

Yes, simply because the only type of criminal justice system I have seen do anything to really make crime rates go down is one that is extremely severe. I would actually not mind hard labor prisons. The Soviet Union was horrible, but our general crime rates were very, very low. It works, plain and simple.
[/quote]

You’re a logical man, Dr.Matt.

A question for you specifically, which sentence would you prefer this man to get; his current sentence, or 10 years in a hard labour prison? [/quote]

I think 10 years of hard labor with the possibility of parole would be acceptable. Hard labor works, especially like in the Soviet Union where if you misbehaved or were a repeat offender then you were given even less food and harder work (the general population of the Soviet Union was starving so how much food do you think even the best behaved prisoners got?)

The bottom line is that the punishment needs to be severe enough to discourage people from becoming criminals and it is just not working in the US right now. If you were worked nearly to death and barely fed for your labor, you would definitely think twice about robbing someone.
[/quote]

Wow, the Soviet Union sure had it right: starve them and hard labor! One small detail you left out: Communism FAILED! Besides the fact that what you are proposing is unconstitutional and will never happen. It’s such a REactive strategy. I agree that our system in America is badly damaged, perhaps even broken, but in OUR society a PROactive approach would be cheaper, constitutional AND more effective in the long term.

TigerTime · July 6, 2012, 3:46am

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t get why you would allow that sort of sentencing instead of sentencing someone to death.
It’s just about the same thing.
If there is a parole date in sight, that’s something to strive for. Same with good behavior.
Most people that I met in prison had a fucked up perspective wrt life because they’ve had such limited experiences in theirs. For me, one of the biggest factors in “fixing” my fucked up life, was being removed from the environment and people that I had immersed and surrounded myself with.[/quote]

Hmm, now there’s an interesting perspective. This is essentially the death sentence, only instead of lethal injection his imposed method of euthanasia is extended confinement. To me, this is more cruel than simply injecting him.

So, I would like to know, if the judge had sentenced him to die quickly at the point of a needle rather than sentencing him to die slowly at the hands of his own mortality, would those of you whom agree with his punishment still agree?[/quote]

Yes, simply because the only type of criminal justice system I have seen do anything to really make crime rates go down is one that is extremely severe. I would actually not mind hard labor prisons. The Soviet Union was horrible, but our general crime rates were very, very low. It works, plain and simple.
[/quote]

You’re a logical man, Dr.Matt.

A question for you specifically, which sentence would you prefer this man to get; his current sentence, or 10 years in a hard labour prison? [/quote]

I think 10 years of hard labor with the possibility of parole would be acceptable. Hard labor works, especially like in the Soviet Union where if you misbehaved or were a repeat offender then you were given even less food and harder work (the general population of the Soviet Union was starving so how much food do you think even the best behaved prisoners got?)

The bottom line is that the punishment needs to be severe enough to discourage people from becoming criminals and it is just not working in the US right now. If you were worked nearly to death and barely fed for your labor, you would definitely think twice about robbing someone.
[/quote]

I agree. I don’t thin this kid is un-reformable (which is the standard I feel the death sentence should be reserved for), but obviously some jail time just wasn’t enough to stop him from committing these crimes. I think hard labour would do more to both reform criminals and deter criminal behaviour.

angry_chicken · July 6, 2012, 3:47am

I’ll be bowing out of the discussion now. I’m going to a different rig tomorrow and probably wont have internet.

TigerTime · July 6, 2012, 3:55am

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t get why you would allow that sort of sentencing instead of sentencing someone to death.
It’s just about the same thing.
If there is a parole date in sight, that’s something to strive for. Same with good behavior.
Most people that I met in prison had a fucked up perspective wrt life because they’ve had such limited experiences in theirs. For me, one of the biggest factors in “fixing” my fucked up life, was being removed from the environment and people that I had immersed and surrounded myself with.[/quote]

Hmm, now there’s an interesting perspective. This is essentially the death sentence, only instead of lethal injection his imposed method of euthanasia is extended confinement. To me, this is more cruel than simply injecting him.

So, I would like to know, if the judge had sentenced him to die quickly at the point of a needle rather than sentencing him to die slowly at the hands of his own mortality, would those of you whom agree with his punishment still agree?[/quote]

Yes, simply because the only type of criminal justice system I have seen do anything to really make crime rates go down is one that is extremely severe. I would actually not mind hard labor prisons. The Soviet Union was horrible, but our general crime rates were very, very low. It works, plain and simple.
[/quote]

You’re a logical man, Dr.Matt.

A question for you specifically, which sentence would you prefer this man to get; his current sentence, or 10 years in a hard labour prison? [/quote]

I think 10 years of hard labor with the possibility of parole would be acceptable. Hard labor works, especially like in the Soviet Union where if you misbehaved or were a repeat offender then you were given even less food and harder work (the general population of the Soviet Union was starving so how much food do you think even the best behaved prisoners got?)

The bottom line is that the punishment needs to be severe enough to discourage people from becoming criminals and it is just not working in the US right now. If you were worked nearly to death and barely fed for your labor, you would definitely think twice about robbing someone.
[/quote]

Wow, the Soviet Union sure had it right: starve them and hard labor! One small detail you left out: Communism FAILED! Besides the fact that what you are proposing is unconstitutional and will never happen. It’s such a REactive strategy. I agree that our system in America is badly damaged, perhaps even broken, but in OUR society a PROactive approach would be cheaper, constitutional AND more effective in the long term.[/quote]

Communism wasn’t predicated on labour camps. Communist Russia failed because central planers can’t appropriately distribute goods without market forces giving them reference and market forces can’t give reference when central planers are trying to control the distribution of all the goods. So to use the collapse of the USSR as an argument against hard labour sentences is fallacious.

I have a question for you though. Would you agree to the 10 year hard labour sentence + possible parole, provided he receives adequate food?

Dr_Matt581 · July 6, 2012, 4:06am

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

You simply CANNOT compare the good old days of the Soviet Union and the fact that, “you were all poor and starving - but crime was LOW cuz you got sent to the work camp for ten years for stealing a loaf of bread” so THAT’S what the good old USA should do, cuz it WORKED! (never mind that whole “Constitution” thing we have over here - we can just throw that out the window). If it was so great over there and crime was so low, why did you leave? [/quote]

Just to clarify, I never left the Soviet Union. I left after the Soviet Union collapsed and the Russian Federation was still in the process of being formed. I left because I was accepted into a great graduate school and decided to stay in America because I love it here. I could easily move back to Russia or anywhere else in the world and not have to worry about money or food at all, but I genuinely love this country and have no intention of leaving.

I have no love for the Soviet Union and there is an entire thread over in GAL where I express that many times. But, one thing that was done right in the Soviet Union to an extent was the prison system. The whole point of prisons are to rehabilitate prisoners and to instill fear into the main population. If one does not fear prison, then one will be more likely to commit crimes. Hard labor may seem harsh, but you know what it is like to starve, and so do I. I would have robbed a supermarket or some random person in a heartbeat if I didn’t know what awaited me in the gulag, and most other people I knew back then would have as well. Instead we found other, legal ways to feed ourselves. We would scrounge, do odd jobs, and trap animals when we could. This does not just go for stuff like robbery, all crime in the Soviet Union that was not perpetrated by corrupt party members was severely punished and it worked very well.

You are right, American society is almost nothing like Soviet society, but that doesn’t change the fact that our criminal rehabilitation system worked and the one in America today does not. Just look at the sheer numbers of repeat offenders and the overcrowding of prisons. Replace the 20 year sentence with just 5 years of hard labor, the kind where you are worked to the brink of death and can do nothing but sleep/pass out at the end of the day and I guarantee that you will see crime drop across the board. People will be too afraid of the hard labor to commit crimes and they will definitely think twice after one term of hard labor.

[quote]
You’re implying that in America there exists personal responsibility. LMMFAO. You see here in OUR “wonderful society” we have popular music that actively promotes criminal behavior. Our first ammendment allows them to do this. MTV shows how successful you can be if you represent the East Coast or the West Coast enough to where you KILL each other. Our MEDIA emasculates our men and exagerates our bad news so that we live in a constant state of FEAR. It also promotes a ridicuouls policy of political correctness that serves ONLY to give them fodder to publically humiliate/crucify ANYONE who dares to say ANYTHING these liberal fucks find offensive. We pay our teachers and police officers SHIT but expect them to raise our kids and keep our communities safe FOR US. Our video games teach our kids that they can hit “reset” and get a new life. Our politicians tell us they are “tough on crime” cuz they continue to wage an idiodic “war on drugs” while almost 40% use weed and nearly 70% of Americans have tried weed… Our divorce rates are above 50%, most kids are raised without a father, our younger generation feels that they are ENTITLED to a job (but don’t want to get their hands dirty). In fact they wan’t the Gov’t to forgive all their student loans because that major in underwater basket weaving didn’t quite turn out the way they imagined it would. But why not? Here in our little league teams even the losing team gets a trophy and gets to feel good about themselves! We can’t buy ALCOHOL until we are 21, but we can take up arms and go kill and die for our country 18… Those of us who are sick and tired of it can’t even get out because if we leave the IRS will STILL demand our money.[/quote]

Nobody is being forced to any of those things, except the IRS one but that probably deserves it’s own thread, and it is still a choice to become a criminal, and harsh punishments still work much better then the current system. I know well the problems with young people. I have watched the change personally with every new batch of 18 year old kids I get every semester, but that does not excuse criminal behavior. I do not know of anyone who is not aware that robbery is illegal and results in jail time so there is just plain no excuse. People are able to tell the difference between a TV show or song and reality. I listen to the same music, watch the same TV shows and the only time I want to commit a crime is when American Idol comes on.

Dr_Matt581 · July 6, 2012, 4:10am

[quote]angry chicken wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:

[quote]TigerTime wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
I don’t get why you would allow that sort of sentencing instead of sentencing someone to death.
It’s just about the same thing.
If there is a parole date in sight, that’s something to strive for. Same with good behavior.
Most people that I met in prison had a fucked up perspective wrt life because they’ve had such limited experiences in theirs. For me, one of the biggest factors in “fixing” my fucked up life, was being removed from the environment and people that I had immersed and surrounded myself with.[/quote]

Hmm, now there’s an interesting perspective. This is essentially the death sentence, only instead of lethal injection his imposed method of euthanasia is extended confinement. To me, this is more cruel than simply injecting him.

So, I would like to know, if the judge had sentenced him to die quickly at the point of a needle rather than sentencing him to die slowly at the hands of his own mortality, would those of you whom agree with his punishment still agree?[/quote]

Yes, simply because the only type of criminal justice system I have seen do anything to really make crime rates go down is one that is extremely severe. I would actually not mind hard labor prisons. The Soviet Union was horrible, but our general crime rates were very, very low. It works, plain and simple.
[/quote]

You’re a logical man, Dr.Matt.

A question for you specifically, which sentence would you prefer this man to get; his current sentence, or 10 years in a hard labour prison? [/quote]

I think 10 years of hard labor with the possibility of parole would be acceptable. Hard labor works, especially like in the Soviet Union where if you misbehaved or were a repeat offender then you were given even less food and harder work (the general population of the Soviet Union was starving so how much food do you think even the best behaved prisoners got?)

The bottom line is that the punishment needs to be severe enough to discourage people from becoming criminals and it is just not working in the US right now. If you were worked nearly to death and barely fed for your labor, you would definitely think twice about robbing someone.
[/quote]

Wow, the Soviet Union sure had it right: starve them and hard labor! One small detail you left out: Communism FAILED! Besides the fact that what you are proposing is unconstitutional and will never happen. It’s such a REactive strategy. I agree that our system in America is badly damaged, perhaps even broken, but in OUR society a PROactive approach would be cheaper, constitutional AND more effective in the long term.[/quote]

Yes, communism failed and it should have, but our prison system was not unique to communism and it just plain worked. Just look at what happened to the crime rates in post-Soviet Russia when the prison system was “reformed” and became similar to the US one. You do not need to be communist to have hard labor prisons, other countries have them and they work better then the one we have now.

orion · July 6, 2012, 6:54am

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:
If he was in Canada, he would be serving his time concurrently.[/quote]

In that case, it would only make sense to keep robbing until you got caught.[/quote]

Depends on what you get for that one robbery.[/quote]

How so? [/quote]

Because if its a harsh enough sentence it would not make sense to go on until you got caught.

GorillaMon · July 6, 2012, 4:59pm