14th Amendment Birthright Abuse

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
161

[quote]MaximusB wrote:
I have listed suggestions, like ENFORCE THE LAWS. Also militarize the border, remove any and all benefits for those who come here illegally. You make it a living hell to be here illegally. No benefits, no citizenship, no welfare, no housing, no schooling for anchor babies, check citizenship for: jobs, during an encounter with police. You declare English the official language and eliminate all catering to other languages.

One main difference between you and I is that I didn’t speak a word of English when I came here, and ESL didn’t exist back then. Imagine going to elementary school not having a clue what the teachers, students, or books said. That was my situation. I HAD to learn English and I wanted to.

You run a tight ship, either follow the rules or G.T.F.O. with no exceptions !!![/quote]

I totally agree with enforce the laws. You are still not focussing on the root cause though. The US economy needs those people to be there, that is why the border is weak and that is why the laws are not enforced.

162

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Well I just posted a link to a research paper showing that there is a net gain from immigrants. Instead of soundbiting would you care to actually address any of the points in it or try to refute any of the facts?[/quote]

Immigrants = Legal Immigrants + Illegal Immigrants.

Simply put the paper doesn’t bother to make a distinction. As such it is worthless in the discussion.

You are lumping highly educated doctors, lawyers, IT professionals, and scientists with hardly educated at all illegals.

Aka the paper you provided doesn’t prove a thing about illegal immigrants.

163

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I totally agree with enforce the laws. You are still not focussing on the root cause though. The US economy needs those people to be there, that is why the border is weak and that is why the laws are not enforced.[/quote]

Why does the US economy need those people there?

Why is it that other Western countries don’t need these people? Why doesn’t Canada need them?

Businesses making a lot of money from them != US economy needing them.

165

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I totally agree with enforce the laws. You are still not focussing on the root cause though. The US economy needs those people to be there, that is why the border is weak and that is why the laws are not enforced.[/quote]

Why does the US economy need those people there?

Why is it that other Western countries don’t need these people? Why doesn’t Canada need them?

Businesses making a lot of money from them != US economy needing them.[/quote]

Thank you for pointing out what is obvious what most bipedals, but evading Blue.

We do not need them, they do that work because they will accept such cheap pay. Start offering decent wages for agricultural jobs and you will see “Americans doing those jobs.” Now you will say that the price of lettuce will jump to $10 a head. No it won’t, because market principles won’t let it. Simply put, no one is going to pay that, so farmers will not charge those prices.

Blue, we are not launching the shuttle here, we are talking about something relatively simple. You are making it much harder than it needs to be. Defend the border, pay decent wages for farm work, you then cycle and recycle money back into the economy through the consumption of goods and services and paying taxes (which most illegals do through an underground economy or dont make enough to pay taxes at all.)

You are also forgetting how much money is sent back to Mexico, which is billions. Imagine the effect of that money staying within our economy, then eliminating the costs associated with illegal immigration (schools, hospitals, welfare, etc), and you have significantly altered the economy in a positive way. In California, the cost of illegals is $14 Billion alone, and we have a $20 Billion deficit.

Thank you ladies and gents, I am here all week, try the veal.

166

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I totally agree with enforce the laws. You are still not focussing on the root cause though. The US economy needs those people to be there, that is why the border is weak and that is why the laws are not enforced.[/quote]

Why does the US economy need those people there?

Why is it that other Western countries don’t need these people? Why doesn’t Canada need them?

Businesses making a lot of money from them != US economy needing them.[/quote]

Other countries do need them and do have them. Who do you think works in all the restaurants in Canada?

167

[quote]MaximusB wrote:

[quote]phaethon wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
I totally agree with enforce the laws. You are still not focussing on the root cause though. The US economy needs those people to be there, that is why the border is weak and that is why the laws are not enforced.[/quote]

Why does the US economy need those people there?

Why is it that other Western countries don’t need these people? Why doesn’t Canada need them?

Businesses making a lot of money from them != US economy needing them.[/quote]

Thank you for pointing out what is obvious what most bipedals, but evading Blue.

We do not need them, they do that work because they will accept such cheap pay. Start offering decent wages for agricultural jobs and you will see “Americans doing those jobs.” Now you will say that the price of lettuce will jump to $10 a head. No it won’t, because market principles won’t let it. Simply put, no one is going to pay that, so farmers will not charge those prices.

Blue, we are not launching the shuttle here, we are talking about something relatively simple. You are making it much harder than it needs to be. Defend the border, pay decent wages for farm work, you then cycle and recycle money back into the economy through the consumption of goods and services and paying taxes (which most illegals do through an underground economy or dont make enough to pay taxes at all.)

You are also forgetting how much money is sent back to Mexico, which is billions. Imagine the effect of that money staying within our economy, then eliminating the costs associated with illegal immigration (schools, hospitals, welfare, etc), and you have significantly altered the economy in a positive way. In California, the cost of illegals is $14 Billion alone, and we have a $20 Billion deficit.

Thank you ladies and gents, I am here all week, try the veal. [/quote]

Yes and then the market pressures moves production offshore and you guys still don’t do the jobs. I guess then the Mexicans don’t have to cross the border to do the same work so it would be one benefit for you.

168

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Yes and then the market pressures moves production offshore and you guys still don’t do the jobs. I guess then the Mexicans don’t have to cross the border to do the same work so it would be one benefit for you.[/quote]

Almost everything that can easily be moved offshore has been. You think companies would pay Mexicans $3/hr when they can pay Chinese workers $3/day if they could get away with it?

There is a reason the jobs are still in America. Especially within the food industry. The US government needs to protect its farms as a matter of national security. And it will make sure food production continues in the United States.

Likewise many of the jobs illegals take are in the service industry. You cannot offshore household cleaning to Mexico. Nor can you offshore construction. Off-shoring services is difficult.

Frankly I don’t believe it would cause major problems to kick out the illegals (Except maybe start a war with Mexico).

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
Other countries do need them and do have them. Who do you think works in all the restaurants in Canada?[/quote]

The illegal immigrant problem in Canada is not comparable in size to that in the US. It is a drop in the ocean.

169

of course the immigrant numbers in Canada are smaller, it is further from Mexico.

If you kicked out all the ‘illegals’ tomorrow your country would grind to a halt. Simple as that.

By the way, over and again I have said that the current systems need to be reviewed. People are abusing the systems and that is wrong.

170

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
If you kicked out all the ‘illegals’ tomorrow your country would grind to a halt. Simple as that.
[/quote]

No it wouldn’t. In my country we lose our shit if 20-30 boat people try and sneak in. Of course my country is girt by sea so it is much harder to sneak in here. Australia would remain a strong first world economy if we got rid of all the illegals.

Now back to the US…you know they could replace all the Mexicans with Chinese who would do the work for half the pay and with little of the crime. With Chinese people who actually wanted to become American and adopt American values.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
By the way, over and again I have said that the current systems need to be reviewed. People are abusing the systems and that is wrong.[/quote]

I think you understate the problem though.