14th Amendment Birthright Abuse

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

I don’t want to pay taxes but they are needed to run the government, I may not like how my taxes are spent but I I do use the services and roads they provide.

[/quote]

Why do you need the government to provide these services?[/quote]

I don’t know if I would trust a private army or a private sector to negotiate treaties and tariffs.

As for roads, I don’t know the cost of a road.

In San Diego we used to out source our data processing but then found that it was cheaper to create a department that handles the data. That saves my tax money.
[/quote]

The US already uses private contractors as an army and to provide a huge number of services and has been doing that for a while. Blackwater, Haliburton, Dyncorp, etc.

Blackwater even employ foreign nationals and use them as front line troops in US wars.[/quote]

I am completely aware of that, but I am not aware that they are used domestically. I can see where they could be a private security force on private land, but are you saying they are used as public law enforcement?

[/quote]

Yup, they were deployed after Katrina in New Orleans and I am pretty sure they have been used many more times.[/quote]

Do you know what Marshall Law is?

I think you need cite where a private military firm acted during Katrina.

[/quote]

I thought this was common knowledge. Don’t you watch Treme?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/22/opinion/main878822_page2.shtml[/quote]

so it was a private force on private land.

but… thank you, the extent was larger than I had envisioned.

[/quote]

Read the whole piece, Dynacorp and the other companies were acting as private security on private property. Blackwater were contracted by the Office Of Homeland Security to act as a police force.

Couple of points of information on the original post. The 14th amendment does a lot more than just grant citizenship to people born in the US. Most of you guys here would lose a lot of rights that you think are important were it repealed.

Secondly, the concept of an Anchor baby is a bit of a misnomer. For the parents to even get a visa they need to wait for the baby to get to 21 years of age and they can only get the visa if the child is earning above a threshold. Do you seriously think mothers are sneaking into the US to give birth then leaving the baby in the US in the hope that 21 years down the line they can finally get a visa to visit?

I am not sure how up you are on the actual disposition of parents of anchor babies.

I had quoted Cockney Blue.

no… parents do not wait until anchor babies are 21yea of age. So funny.

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

I don’t want to pay taxes but they are needed to run the government, I may not like how my taxes are spent but I I do use the services and roads they provide.

[/quote]

Why do you need the government to provide these services?[/quote]

I don’t know if I would trust a private army or a private sector to negotiate treaties and tariffs.

As for roads, I don’t know the cost of a road.

In San Diego we used to out source our data processing but then found that it was cheaper to create a department that handles the data. That saves my tax money.
[/quote]

The US already uses private contractors as an army and to provide a huge number of services and has been doing that for a while. Blackwater, Haliburton, Dyncorp, etc.

Blackwater even employ foreign nationals and use them as front line troops in US wars.[/quote]

I am completely aware of that, but I am not aware that they are used domestically. I can see where they could be a private security force on private land, but are you saying they are used as public law enforcement?

[/quote]

Yup, they were deployed after Katrina in New Orleans and I am pretty sure they have been used many more times.[/quote]

Do you know what Marshall Law is?

I think you need cite where a private military firm acted during Katrina.

[/quote]

I thought this was common knowledge. Don’t you watch Treme?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/22/opinion/main878822_page2.shtml[/quote]

so it was a private force on private land.

but… thank you, the extent was larger than I had envisioned.

[/quote]

Read the whole piece, Dynacorp and the other companies were acting as private security on private property. Blackwater were contracted by the Office Of Homeland Security to act as a police force.[/quote]

wow… I read other articles, I was unaware. What a bad idea that got ugly.

http://www.alternet.org/katrina/25858/

hopefully that won’t happen again.

and to read further, it said it was not to be used in the private sector but to secure government properties.

I am not in agreement with this, but I am also from a military family and mercenaries are cheap shots.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Well my view is that all people even the unborn have rights, that includes the elderly, the middle aged, the young adult, the teenagers, the children, the toddlers, the babies, and the unborn. They all can do as they please, as long as what they do with their property does not violate someone’s right to private property, either.
[/quote]

How do the unborn have “rights” if they cannot freely act on their own desires, on their will?

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]Otep wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Are you suggesting people should enact their own punishments or that they should be billed by whatever responding agency comes to their aid after victimization of a crime?

What is your stance on your having the option to opt out of being a citizen here if the conditions are not those that are of your conviction? Or are you here to participate and vote for change and express your opinion? In which case you are voluntarily participating in the system?
[/quote]

Insurance. Under a free market of justice insurance would fill the gap. One either could be covered under their own policy or their employer’s/landlord’s policy. All property owners should have insurance, anyway.

I believe in the concept of nullification. No one should be forced to be part of an association they do not want to.[/quote]

The act of driving on a road means you are reaping the benefit of the tax system.

I don’t like the idea of insurance because too many people can’t afford to pay for their car insurance and to keep heaping costs on them is an undue expense. Having a law enforcement agency that is paid for through my taxes is something I do very much like.

[/quote]

I think you are putting the cart before the horse on this one. If you look at insurance at is, it is prohibitively expensive. The reasons can mostly be pointed to the regulation on insurance. Making it more expensive. Think about this, when I had insurance in Kansas it cost me 47 dollars a month (full coverage). I lived in an area that was “above” the median economic level in America. Now tell me why in Arizona insurance is 120 a month for me? The reason, because those companies in Kansas can’t come here and compete. The insurance companies in Arizona therefore can jack their prices up and we can’t really do anything about it since starting up an insurance company is equal to have about 10-15 million dollars already in your bankroll.[/quote]

I’ll try to look up specifics later, but I’m fairly certain this is not true. Most insurance companies are incorporated in Delaware or a few other states for their generous incorporation laws. The specifics of costs and prices have to do with insurance companies not being able to pool members across state lines. As in, An insurance company must force residents in Texarkana to decide if they live Texas or Arkansas, and then price them according to that, because it cannot have a cross-state-border pool of customers.

EDIT: Let Health Insurance Cross State Lines, Some Say - The New York Times

Turns out its a licensing issue, with specific states demanding specific insurance packages to be sold in their state. So, effect is the same, method is different.[/quote]

Yeah, and stuff like states demanding that an insurance company having an office in their actual state to sell insurance.[/quote]

I can’t imagine a requirement to have an office would be that burdensome. All they would need is an address and a gentleman to pick up mail once a week. The rest could be handled digitally by their main office. And now they have an entire state opened to them. It’d be fairly easy to open up all the big states in such a manner, if that’s the only other burden. [/quote]

No, when I mean office I mean the whole shabang, like you are starting up a new business.

In Kansas you have to appeal for a license, they review it, if they approve it (which I believe cost a million for the license) then they give you a year to come up with 12 million dollars. But you have to license all your guys to sell stocks to collect the money first, and you have to create the corporation and get the paper work in the actual state.

Then after they see you have collected the amount, they then review your appeal and may or may not give you the license. They may require more money in your bankroll before sending it to the board for official review. When they send it to the review board for final decision you have to have everything in order. Everything, anything off, snip snip, go back to the back of the line. If you are given your license to have an insurance company in that state, you then have to hire people that have the license to actually sell insurance to people.

So, not necessary to just have a mailbox and an address, most states want offices, the kind the customer can come to and talk to their agent. And you have to have insurance license in the state, a bankroll, and agents with licenses to sell insurance. Which seems simple, but it’s not. Yes, big insurance companies have an easier time as they usually have the 10-25 million to fund the bankroll, and the couple million to pay for the license. However, that makes it damn tough for new people to enter the insurance business without the bankroll.[/quote]

One of the issues I have with Insurance is that each state requires different coverages for different risks. Not every state has a hurrican exposure, and not every state has an earthquake exposure. The insurance companies use statistics to come up with with premium price. They have all the back ground information to get the prices really close to breakeven. Then they add on their profit, but when the stock market and other investments are making a lot of money the insurance companies can drop their prices below breakeven because they are making money on the investments. In 2008 when the market went in the tank that investment income went negative, so they had to raise prices. The price for insurance has to be approved by the state in which said insurance is going to be sold.

I am for forcing people to have liability insurance on their car. It is part of owning a car. Might be expensive, but the insurance is not to cover you, but to cover me if you hit me.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
I am not sure how up you are on the actual disposition of parents of anchor babies.

I had quoted Cockney Blue.

no… parents do not wait until anchor babies are 21yea of age. So funny.
[/quote]

Well the law says that the child has to be 21 to apply for a visa for their parents. The courts are also not allowed to take dependent US citizen children into account when considering deportation cases so could you explain exactly how a so called anchor baby would benefit a parent in the short term?

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]John S. wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

I don’t want to pay taxes but they are needed to run the government, I may not like how my taxes are spent but I I do use the services and roads they provide.

[/quote]

Why do you need the government to provide these services?[/quote]

I don’t know if I would trust a private army or a private sector to negotiate treaties and tariffs.

As for roads, I don’t know the cost of a road.

In San Diego we used to out source our data processing but then found that it was cheaper to create a department that handles the data. That saves my tax money.
[/quote]

The US already uses private contractors as an army and to provide a huge number of services and has been doing that for a while. Blackwater, Haliburton, Dyncorp, etc.

Blackwater even employ foreign nationals and use them as front line troops in US wars.[/quote]

I am completely aware of that, but I am not aware that they are used domestically. I can see where they could be a private security force on private land, but are you saying they are used as public law enforcement?

[/quote]

Yup, they were deployed after Katrina in New Orleans and I am pretty sure they have been used many more times.[/quote]

Do you know what Marshall Law is?

I think you need cite where a private military firm acted during Katrina.

[/quote]

I thought this was common knowledge. Don’t you watch Treme?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/22/opinion/main878822_page2.shtml[/quote]

so it was a private force on private land.

but… thank you, the extent was larger than I had envisioned.

[/quote]

Read the whole piece, Dynacorp and the other companies were acting as private security on private property. Blackwater were contracted by the Office Of Homeland Security to act as a police force.[/quote]

wow… I read other articles, I was unaware. What a bad idea that got ugly.

http://www.alternet.org/katrina/25858/

hopefully that won’t happen again.

and to read further, it said it was not to be used in the private sector but to secure government properties.

I am not in agreement with this, but I am also from a military family and mercenaries are cheap shots.

[/quote]

I read a really interesting book about the history of Blackwater a few months back. The guy writing it had a very obvious agenda however it really opened my eyes to some of the stuff that is going on.

[quote]PonceDeLeon wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:
Well my view is that all people even the unborn have rights, that includes the elderly, the middle aged, the young adult, the teenagers, the children, the toddlers, the babies, and the unborn. They all can do as they please, as long as what they do with their property does not violate someone’s right to private property, either.
[/quote]

How do the unborn have “rights” if they cannot freely act on their own desires, on their will?
[/quote]

I’m not sure there is much difference between a three day old infant acting on their own desires on their will and an unborn baby acting on their own desires on their will. And, I am sure there are a few quadriplegics who have that problem, too.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Are you suggesting people should enact their own punishments or that they should be billed by whatever responding agency comes to their aid after victimization of a crime?

What is your stance on your having the option to opt out of being a citizen here if the conditions are not those that are of your conviction? Or are you here to participate and vote for change and express your opinion? In which case you are voluntarily participating in the system?
[/quote]

Insurance. Under a free market of justice insurance would fill the gap. One either could be covered under their own policy or their employer’s/landlord’s policy. All property owners should have insurance, anyway.

I believe in the concept of nullification. No one should be forced to be part of an association they do not want to.[/quote]

The act of driving on a road means you are reaping the benefit of the tax system.

I don’t like the idea of insurance because too many people can’t afford to pay for their car insurance and to keep heaping costs on them is an undue expense. Having a law enforcement agency that is paid for through my taxes is something I do very much like.

[/quote]
By “benefitting” you mean I have to be robbed first to pay for it? Toll roads…just saying. Way more efficient and much better to drive on. In a free market for roads mass transit would be way more available too! (not to mention all those tree-hugging bitches would have no reason to complain about roads being overused).

Also, If someone cannot afford insurance then they probably have no property worth insuring in the first place. Besides, once the state is peeled back the hidden costs to do business would go away and the purchasing power of the dollar would increase. Prices would most likely come down in every realm of the economy except real wages (determined by total capital stock and the purchasing power of money).

14th amendment was not written to simply free blacks. if it was, it would have said african slaves are now citizens.

it was written so that dredd scott and black codes could be overruled, both are centered around property more than race (if there more were asians it would have been yellow codes). and that due process, equal protections, and the bill of rights would always supersede state law. to protect from state level intrusion of the bill of rights.

lots could be said about the parallel of dredd scott and businesses importing illegal labor.

i would say trying to reword this amendment (especially with the current batch of politicians and potentials in November) could cause way more damage and loop holes than any conjured up ideas of anchor babies.

we need to provide equal protection of law to illegals so that we can put them into our justice system and deport them.

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
14th amendment was not written to simply free blacks. if it was, it would have said african slaves are now citizens.

it was written so that dredd scott and black codes could be overruled, both are centered around property more than race (if there more were asians it would have been yellow codes). and that due process, equal protections, and the bill of rights would always supersede state law. to protect from state level intrusion of the bill of rights.

lots could be said about the parallel of dredd scott and businesses importing illegal labor.

i would say trying to reword this amendment (especially with the current batch of politicians and potentials in November) could cause way more damage and loop holes than any conjured up ideas of anchor babies.

we need to provide equal protection of law to illegals so that we can put them into our justice system and deport them.[/quote]

I think the key phrase of the 14th is "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, . . . "

Isn’t that what a lot of what the speculation is about, whether illegal aliens are under the jurisdiction of the United States. Does jurisdiction apply to anyone entering the nation whether legally or illegally.

Regarding the treatment of illegal aliens I do want them to have reasonable care and protection, but then I want them fined, entered into the system as a criminal, and then deported.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Are you suggesting people should enact their own punishments or that they should be billed by whatever responding agency comes to their aid after victimization of a crime?

What is your stance on your having the option to opt out of being a citizen here if the conditions are not those that are of your conviction? Or are you here to participate and vote for change and express your opinion? In which case you are voluntarily participating in the system?
[/quote]

Insurance. Under a free market of justice insurance would fill the gap. One either could be covered under their own policy or their employer’s/landlord’s policy. All property owners should have insurance, anyway.

I believe in the concept of nullification. No one should be forced to be part of an association they do not want to.[/quote]

The act of driving on a road means you are reaping the benefit of the tax system.

I don’t like the idea of insurance because too many people can’t afford to pay for their car insurance and to keep heaping costs on them is an undue expense. Having a law enforcement agency that is paid for through my taxes is something I do very much like.

[/quote]
By “benefitting” you mean I have to be robbed first to pay for it? Toll roads…just saying. Way more efficient and much better to drive on. In a free market for roads mass transit would be way more available too! (not to mention all those tree-hugging bitches would have no reason to complain about roads being overused).

Also, If someone cannot afford insurance then they probably have no property worth insuring in the first place. Besides, once the state is peeled back the hidden costs to do business would go away and the purchasing power of the dollar would increase. Prices would most likely come down in every realm of the economy except real wages (determined by total capital stock and the purchasing power of money).[/quote]

I see your point that there are no private roads for you to choose but you must use the roads already paid for with your taxes. You were made part of a system right from the beginning with no chance to opt out.

I had mentioned in a different post about the justice insurance and what happens if someone doesn’t have it? Do they not get assistance if under attack? Or if they are assisted and they don’t have insurance, who picks up the cost if they don’t have the money? Won’t policy holders still be paying for the uninsured just like with taxes?

Won’t there also be unequal protection? What if there isn’t enough policy owners to fund a private law enforcement agency?

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
14th amendment was not written to simply free blacks. if it was, it would have said african slaves are now citizens.
[/quote]

I didn’t say it freed blacks. That’s what the emancipation proclamation was for.

[quote]
it was written so that dredd scott and black codes could be overruled, both are centered around property more than race (if there more were asians it would have been yellow codes). and that due process, equal protections, and the bill of rights would always supersede state law. to protect from state level intrusion of the bill of rights.

lots could be said about the parallel of dredd scott and businesses importing illegal labor.

i would say trying to reword this amendment (especially with the current batch of politicians and potentials in November) could cause way more damage and loop holes than any conjured up ideas of anchor babies.

we need to provide equal protection of law to illegals so that we can put them into our justice system and deport them.[/quote]

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Are you suggesting people should enact their own punishments or that they should be billed by whatever responding agency comes to their aid after victimization of a crime?

What is your stance on your having the option to opt out of being a citizen here if the conditions are not those that are of your conviction? Or are you here to participate and vote for change and express your opinion? In which case you are voluntarily participating in the system?
[/quote]

Insurance. Under a free market of justice insurance would fill the gap. One either could be covered under their own policy or their employer’s/landlord’s policy. All property owners should have insurance, anyway.

I believe in the concept of nullification. No one should be forced to be part of an association they do not want to.[/quote]

The act of driving on a road means you are reaping the benefit of the tax system.

I don’t like the idea of insurance because too many people can’t afford to pay for their car insurance and to keep heaping costs on them is an undue expense. Having a law enforcement agency that is paid for through my taxes is something I do very much like.

[/quote]
By “benefitting” you mean I have to be robbed first to pay for it? Toll roads…just saying. Way more efficient and much better to drive on. In a free market for roads mass transit would be way more available too! (not to mention all those tree-hugging bitches would have no reason to complain about roads being overused).

Also, If someone cannot afford insurance then they probably have no property worth insuring in the first place. Besides, once the state is peeled back the hidden costs to do business would go away and the purchasing power of the dollar would increase. Prices would most likely come down in every realm of the economy except real wages (determined by total capital stock and the purchasing power of money).[/quote]

I see your point that there are no private roads for you to choose but you must use the roads already paid for with your taxes. You were made part of a system right from the beginning with no chance to opt out.

I had mentioned in a different post about the justice insurance and what happens if someone doesn’t have it? Do they not get assistance if under attack? Or if they are assisted and they don’t have insurance, who picks up the cost if they don’t have the money? Won’t policy holders still be paying for the uninsured just like with taxes?
[/quote]

Possibly, but however, I think if you do not have justice insurance, and I see you being attacked. I’ll shot 'em for ya. :wink:

They go out of business. Like if there is not enough eaters to fund a private grocery agency. Someone will come in if there is a need. Like in Garden City, before all the Viets moved in. We had 2 cops, a sheriff, a night sheriff and a two volunteer patrol officers. Now, 120 cops. Is that necessary in Garden City? No. No it is not. The more cops they have the more crime that follows, which is strange (it is actually not, but ya know).

Plus, without gun control you can arm yourself. Plus there would likely be less crime since more options would be open to people.

Those dirty drug dealers on the corner that robbed you, might decide it beneficial to open up a weed store and make a chain out of it rather than slang cocaine and murder other inner city folks, since no long would narcotics be illegal.

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Are you suggesting people should enact their own punishments or that they should be billed by whatever responding agency comes to their aid after victimization of a crime?

What is your stance on your having the option to opt out of being a citizen here if the conditions are not those that are of your conviction? Or are you here to participate and vote for change and express your opinion? In which case you are voluntarily participating in the system?
[/quote]

Insurance. Under a free market of justice insurance would fill the gap. One either could be covered under their own policy or their employer’s/landlord’s policy. All property owners should have insurance, anyway.

I believe in the concept of nullification. No one should be forced to be part of an association they do not want to.[/quote]

The act of driving on a road means you are reaping the benefit of the tax system.

I don’t like the idea of insurance because too many people can’t afford to pay for their car insurance and to keep heaping costs on them is an undue expense. Having a law enforcement agency that is paid for through my taxes is something I do very much like.

[/quote]
By “benefitting” you mean I have to be robbed first to pay for it? Toll roads…just saying. Way more efficient and much better to drive on. In a free market for roads mass transit would be way more available too! (not to mention all those tree-hugging bitches would have no reason to complain about roads being overused).

Also, If someone cannot afford insurance then they probably have no property worth insuring in the first place. Besides, once the state is peeled back the hidden costs to do business would go away and the purchasing power of the dollar would increase. Prices would most likely come down in every realm of the economy except real wages (determined by total capital stock and the purchasing power of money).[/quote]

I see your point that there are no private roads for you to choose but you must use the roads already paid for with your taxes. You were made part of a system right from the beginning with no chance to opt out.

I had mentioned in a different post about the justice insurance and what happens if someone doesn’t have it? Do they not get assistance if under attack? Or if they are assisted and they don’t have insurance, who picks up the cost if they don’t have the money? Won’t policy holders still be paying for the uninsured just like with taxes?
[/quote]

Possibly, but however, I think if you do not have justice insurance, and I see you being attacked. I’ll shot 'em for ya. :wink:

They go out of business. Like if there is not enough eaters to fund a private grocery agency. Someone will come in if there is a need. Like in Garden City, before all the Viets moved in. We had 2 cops, a sheriff, a night sheriff and a two volunteer patrol officers. Now, 120 cops. Is that necessary in Garden City? No. No it is not. The more cops they have the more crime that follows, which is strange (it is actually not, but ya know).

Plus, without gun control you can arm yourself. Plus there would likely be less crime since more options would be open to people.

Those dirty drug dealers on the corner that robbed you, might decide it beneficial to open up a weed store and make a chain out of it rather than slang cocaine and murder other inner city folks, since no long would narcotics be illegal.[/quote]

No, I think I prefer knowing there is law enforcement and that it is not reliant on my neighbors buying insurance who may thing, “she’s buying insurance so they will be in the neighborhood so I don’t have to.” Or if neighbors move out then maybe with increased vacancies there isn’t enough policy holders and again there would be the risk of losing law enforcement or my premiums go through the roof.

Nah, some things are good the way they are.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]Brother Chris wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:
Are you suggesting people should enact their own punishments or that they should be billed by whatever responding agency comes to their aid after victimization of a crime?

What is your stance on your having the option to opt out of being a citizen here if the conditions are not those that are of your conviction? Or are you here to participate and vote for change and express your opinion? In which case you are voluntarily participating in the system?
[/quote]

Insurance. Under a free market of justice insurance would fill the gap. One either could be covered under their own policy or their employer’s/landlord’s policy. All property owners should have insurance, anyway.

I believe in the concept of nullification. No one should be forced to be part of an association they do not want to.[/quote]

The act of driving on a road means you are reaping the benefit of the tax system.

I don’t like the idea of insurance because too many people can’t afford to pay for their car insurance and to keep heaping costs on them is an undue expense. Having a law enforcement agency that is paid for through my taxes is something I do very much like.

[/quote]
By “benefitting” you mean I have to be robbed first to pay for it? Toll roads…just saying. Way more efficient and much better to drive on. In a free market for roads mass transit would be way more available too! (not to mention all those tree-hugging bitches would have no reason to complain about roads being overused).

Also, If someone cannot afford insurance then they probably have no property worth insuring in the first place. Besides, once the state is peeled back the hidden costs to do business would go away and the purchasing power of the dollar would increase. Prices would most likely come down in every realm of the economy except real wages (determined by total capital stock and the purchasing power of money).[/quote]

I see your point that there are no private roads for you to choose but you must use the roads already paid for with your taxes. You were made part of a system right from the beginning with no chance to opt out.

I had mentioned in a different post about the justice insurance and what happens if someone doesn’t have it? Do they not get assistance if under attack? Or if they are assisted and they don’t have insurance, who picks up the cost if they don’t have the money? Won’t policy holders still be paying for the uninsured just like with taxes?
[/quote]

Possibly, but however, I think if you do not have justice insurance, and I see you being attacked. I’ll shot 'em for ya. :wink:

They go out of business. Like if there is not enough eaters to fund a private grocery agency. Someone will come in if there is a need. Like in Garden City, before all the Viets moved in. We had 2 cops, a sheriff, a night sheriff and a two volunteer patrol officers. Now, 120 cops. Is that necessary in Garden City? No. No it is not. The more cops they have the more crime that follows, which is strange (it is actually not, but ya know).

Plus, without gun control you can arm yourself. Plus there would likely be less crime since more options would be open to people.

Those dirty drug dealers on the corner that robbed you, might decide it beneficial to open up a weed store and make a chain out of it rather than slang cocaine and murder other inner city folks, since no long would narcotics be illegal.[/quote]

No, I think I prefer knowing there is law enforcement and that it is not reliant on my neighbors buying insurance who may thing, “she’s buying insurance so they will be in the neighborhood so I don’t have to.” Or if neighbors move out then maybe with increased vacancies there isn’t enough policy holders and again there would be the risk of losing law enforcement or my premiums go through the roof.

Nah, some things are good the way they are.

[/quote]

I don’t think that is how it would work, but I gotta go to Fantasy FOOTBALL! TTYL Miss October.

http://www.wisepolitics.com/utah-immigration-bill-unveiled-1604.html

People with no insurance – because they have no property to insure – logically would not be the victims of property crimes. In a free market system of justice the cost of insurance would be calculated into the entire cost of property ownership (just as it is when a person buys a home). In the case of violent crime against a person that cannot afford insurance they would most likely be protected by the policy of a property owner who is paying to keep crime off his property (which he has an incentive to do to keep his property from being devalued).

Insurance companies would effectively be security agencies that would have to keep crime to a minimum to keep from having to pay out. In such a system I see crime being much lower than it is today because insurance companies (unlike the local, state, and federal police) actually would have a financial incentive to stop crime.

Under a monopoly of justice the incentive is to empower the state by redefining (by legislation) what is a crime – thus more laws create more criminals and tax feeders.

[quote]OctoberGirl wrote:

[quote]PB-Crawl wrote:
14th amendment was not written to simply free blacks. if it was, it would have said african slaves are now citizens.

it was written so that dredd scott and black codes could be overruled, both are centered around property more than race (if there more were asians it would have been yellow codes). and that due process, equal protections, and the bill of rights would always supersede state law. to protect from state level intrusion of the bill of rights.

lots could be said about the parallel of dredd scott and businesses importing illegal labor.

i would say trying to reword this amendment (especially with the current batch of politicians and potentials in November) could cause way more damage and loop holes than any conjured up ideas of anchor babies.

we need to provide equal protection of law to illegals so that we can put them into our justice system and deport them.[/quote]

I think the key phrase of the 14th is "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, . . . "

Isn’t that what a lot of what the speculation is about, whether illegal aliens are under the jurisdiction of the United States. Does jurisdiction apply to anyone entering the nation whether legally or illegally.

Regarding the treatment of illegal aliens I do want them to have reasonable care and protection, but then I want them fined, entered into the system as a criminal, and then deported.[/quote]

Hey OG, I am still waiting for you to explain to me how this Anchor Baby thing actually works. I (well my wife) have a baby due in 3 weeks, I am currently in Mexico. So, we sneak over the border, my wife drops the sprog and then what?

I am seriously interested in a real answer to the question.

How can my wife and I benefit from my Daughter being born in the US instead of Mexico (this is all hypothetical of course, my daughter will automatically have British Nationality as I have British Nationality therefore my daughter (and my wife and I) have the right to enter the US freely on the Visa Waiver program)